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LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible
Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^
Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie
Jeepers...
To: Alamo-Girl; Elsie
Words do fail at times......
302
posted on
11/07/2010 8:18:41 PM PST
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: metmom
Exactly.
To: MHGinTN
I want to ask you a question. When you answer if you could seperate your normal ridicule and condenscension from your actual answer so it's easier to discern I'd appreciate it. That way you can answer my question and still serve your master at the same time. It's a win/win Thanks!
In the Bible there are several references to the final judgement in a particular context.
The set up.
Matthew 7:13 - 14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Luke 13:23 - 28
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Matthew 25:10 - 13
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 7:21 - 23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1. Matt 7: - few there be that find it. -I'm focusing on the word "few".
2. Matt 25: - Lord Lord, open to us.
3. Luke 13: - Lord, are there few that be saved? Many will seek to enter and shall not be able.
4. Matt 7: - Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven
A couple things surface.
a. Jesus makes it very clear that only a few people will actually be allowed into heaven.
b. He's talking about people who believe. Who else would be calling him Lord and try to make the case that they have known him. But the Lord casts them off anyway.
c. His audience is believers.
The question (with a couple parts)
1. 2000 years of christianity; and for 1700 yrs the entire western world were believers; so who's getting cast out?
2. Among all the believers for 2000 yrs.. who are the few?
3. Since your beliefs are the same as all theirs... what's the difference?
304
posted on
11/07/2010 8:36:02 PM PST
by
Stourme
((www.thebayougardener.com - my favorite website))
To: Tennessee Nana
Mal. 3: 18
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Heb. 11: 4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Matt. 10: 41
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophets reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous mans reward.
To: restornu
Learn something new every day!
Thanks Restornu, I'll keep those scriptures in mind.
306
posted on
11/07/2010 9:07:19 PM PST
by
Stourme
((www.thebayougardener.com - my favorite website))
To: restornu
Not one of those verses means that you have to work to earn your salvation.
Good works that mean anything are a result of being saved.
What they do is earn you reward in heaven. They don’t earn you heaven.
307
posted on
11/07/2010 9:13:31 PM PST
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Stourme; MHGinTN
1. Matt 7: - few there be that find it. -I'm focusing on the word "few".2. Matt 25: - Lord Lord, open to us.3. Luke 13: - Lord, are there few that be saved?Many will seek to enter and shall not be able....2. Among all the believers for 2000 yrs.. who are the few?Nice cherrypicking, Stourme.
A compliment, though: At least you picked the right chapters to focus on...if you were going to try to do some kind of "statistical analysis" of who would retain new life/consummate salvation.
What's interesting is that you easily found the two chapters mentioning a still general term Jesus uses of "few", but somehow in your "statistical analysis" you skipped over the one verse that actually provides a % for us (Matt. 25:2).
It's not as if you missed Matt. 25. Why didn't you cite v. 2? Was that a deliberate skip-over? Was it because it didn't match your theme scheme?
Here's Matt 25:2: Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
That's a 50% ratio, Stourme.
So how do we reconcile the 50% of Matt 25:2 with the "few" of Matt. 7 & Luke 13?
It's simple. The "few" of Matt. 7 & Luke 13 is against the backdrop of humanity -- the humanity's that ever lived...and the humanity that as we move closer to the days when Jesus returns...it'll be darker than ever...(see Matthew 24).
The 50% figure is in ratio to the people who go out to meet the Bridegroom. These are people who have been wanting and waiting to see Him. They're not the type of people who are going to flee in fear when Jesus returns. IOW, I'm pretty sure we can discount the "unchurched" from even being a part of this ratio (on either side).
What's interesting, Stourme, is that in Matt. 25...the 50% of people anticipating Jesus' return are locked out because they lack one readiness: Oil...a symbol in the Scriptures for the Holy Spirit. They lack the Holy Spirit in their lives.
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Jews, they tend to think of a physical location.
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Mormons, they tend to think of a physical location. [If you don't believe me, go to your Mormon bookstores and look over all the books on temples]
* When the word "temple" is mentioned to Christians, most tend to think of the flesh-and-blood Body of Christ, which is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
When Lds "apostles" through the years have described the Holy Spirit, you have Lds "prophets" like Joseph Smith and "apostles" like John Widtsoe who describe Him in impersonal terms and use the word "IT" in conjunction with Him. The Mormon Times to this very year makes the exact same mischaracterization of the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the Mormon Encyclopedia -- and historically, Lds "apostles" like Heber C. Kimball -- have labeled the Holy Spirit to be a "man."
If you do what Jehovah's Witnesses do, and depersonalize the Holy Spirit...and just as bad, if you make the Holy Spirit out to be a "man" -- you show that Mormons don't even know who the Holy Spirit is!
Thus, it appears Lds would either fall into two categories: Either the 50% ratio anticipating to see Jesus, but will be locked out -- not even knowing the true Holy Spirit of which they try to speak. Or, realizing that they have not trusted Jesus' cross to cover their sins -- that they've tried to merit God's forgiveness, they run from Him and aren't even considered to be either of those 50% ratios...they would be part of the "broad" of Matthew 7.
I suppose I'll next have to trot out the verses from...
...from the D&C (76:52)...
...The Lds church, (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 253)
...Spencer W. Kimball (in his book, The Miracle of Forgiveness, several references)
...from Bruce McConkie (Mormon Doctrine, p. 295)
...from Lds "apostle" Boyd Packer...
...& other Lds "prophets"...
......who have all preached that you have to earn/merit your forgiveness.
308
posted on
11/07/2010 9:41:55 PM PST
by
Colofornian
("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
To: Godzilla
What are you trying to put pass me silly one...
NEVER, lucifer is not a human being, never was, never will be, but a different creation all together. Because of his place infront of God, there was no excuse for his rebellion, nor any provision for any grace. His was a form of the unpardonable sin.
Humanity is a separate creation from the angels. I know mormonism doesn’t teach that, but you asked MY interpretation as a Christian.
***
This scripture is very clear
Job 38
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isa 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Lucifer was one of the sons of God
BTW
Rev. 22: 16
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
To: Stourme
I suggest reading #239 before you condemn anyone else to hell. I guess that pesky little word IF is very hard to figger out at times; eh?
310
posted on
11/08/2010 3:29:05 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: MHGinTN
You’re NUTS!
(Must be too much education...)
311
posted on
11/08/2010 3:30:29 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Religion Moderator
312
posted on
11/08/2010 4:11:04 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Religion Moderator
313
posted on
11/08/2010 4:12:27 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Stourme
When you answer if you could seperate your normal ridicule and condenscension from your actual answer so it's easier to discern I'd appreciate it.
You are kidding; Right? [Elsie] |
314
posted on
11/08/2010 4:18:24 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Stourme
The question (with a couple parts) Your 'question' seems to be mostly mere ASSUMPTION/strawman.
315
posted on
11/08/2010 4:20:41 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: restornu
There you go AGAIN!!
Posting BIBLE verese that may or not be TRANSLATED right!
How can you keep doing this with all of the doubt that it must incur?
316
posted on
11/08/2010 4:22:00 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: restornu
This scripture is very clear THIS one is NOT!
"Mother; I have learned that PRESBYTERIANism is not true."
317
posted on
11/08/2010 4:23:56 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: restornu
This scripture is very clear THESE are too!
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
BEHOLD!!!! The Restorative Power of the Book of Mormon!!
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
TRUTH IGNORED
Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimbal,l Woodruff ...
318
posted on
11/08/2010 4:25:49 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: restornu
This scripture is very clear THIS is too!
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
58 Now, as touching the
law of the
apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was
aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that
bsent me, and I have endowed him with the
ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my
law and by my word, he will not commit
dsin, and I will justify him.
60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
61 And again, as pertaining to the
law of the priesthoodif any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse
aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have
aten virgins given unto him by this
law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to
amultiply and replenish the earth, according to
my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be
bglorified.
64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be
lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to
my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the
law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the
law when
I commanded Abraham to take
aHagar to wife.
66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
And yet the Salt Lake City MORMONs are AFRAID of the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT and do NOT follow what their GOD so plainly commanded them to do!
319
posted on
11/08/2010 4:32:11 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: restornu
This scripture is very clear HOW can be ASSURED of that when your FOUNDER says that certain parts of the BIBLE are NOT translated correctly?
320
posted on
11/08/2010 4:33:17 AM PST
by
Elsie
( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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