[Colofornian]

The October Other-World Series:

They see dead people?

Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings
The "familiar spirit" in 2 Nephi 26:16

Current focus -- The Occult History of Joseph Smith: Home Field -- The early 1800s:

What kind of a home environment did Joseph Smith have?

JOSEPH SMITH, JR: Founder and first "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (1805-1844)

JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT

[samtheman]

This is the 3rd anti-Mormon diatribe you’ve posted today.

Are you going for a record?

Is it raining today where you are?

[mnehring]

According to occultist and Thirty-Third Degree Mason Manly P. Hall

Still reading through this but a point of contention. Manly Hall never went through the Blue Lodge initiation nor any of the Scottish Rite path to become a 33 degree Scottish Rite Mason, he claims the 33 degree was conferred upon him. IMHO, this is akin to buying a college degree from a diploma mill. (ie, not a real Mason).. now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Colofornian]

From the article: Necromancy, or communication with the dead, has also played an important role in Mormon history, beginning with Smith's earliest "visions." Mormon leaders have traditionally taught that he was actually a spirit medium. For example, in an 1853 sermon, LDS elder Parley P. Pratt revealed that Mormonism is founded entirely on the practice of necromancy, and that the spiritualist movement of the Nineteenth Century, which had begun only five years earlier, actually aided the cause of the LDS church:
Who communicated with our great Prophet, and revealed through him as a medium, the ancient history of a hemisphere, and the records of the ancient dead? Moroni, who had lived upon the earth 1400 years before....
Who revealed to him the plan of redemption, and of exaltation for the dead who had died without the Gospel and the keys and preparations necessary for holy and perpetual converse with Jesus Christ, and with the spirits of just men made perfect?... Those from the dead!...
Shall we, then, deny the principle, the philosophy, the fact of communication between worlds? No! verily no! Editors, statesmen, philosophers, priests, and lawyers, as well as the common people, began to advocate the principle of converse with the dead, by visions, divination, clairvoyance, knocking, and writing mediums, etc., etc. This spiritual philosophy of converse with the dead, once established by the labors, toils, sufferings, and martyrdom of its modern founders, and now embraced by a large portion of the learned world, show a triumph more rapid and complete — a victory more extensive, than has ever been achieved in the same length of time in our world.
An important point is gained, a victory won, and a countless host of opposing powers vanquished, on one of the leading or fundamental truths of "Mormon" philosophy, viz. — "that the living may hear from the dead."

Pratt was an Lds "apostle" -- and he's Mitt Romney's great-great grandfather. Here, he...
...labeled Joseph Smith a "medium."
...said it was "the dead" who communicated these things to him.
...said we can't deny the communication of the worlds (what Mormons call "the spirit world" with this world)
...he labels this worldview a "leading or fundamental truths of "Mormon" philosophy, viz. — "that the living may hear from the dead."
...and even labels this conversing with the dead, which he recognizes as being "advocated" "by visions, divination, clairvoyance, knocking, and writing mediums," "...show a triumph more rapid and complete — a victory more extensive, than has ever been achieved in the same length of time in our world.

[Colofornian]

From the article: According to Ezra Taft Benson, the spirit world "is very close," and the veil between it and the physical realm "can be very thin."(36) Other LDS sources indicate that spirits often make contact with the living to give counsel, offer comfort, obtain or give information, or to prepare men for death.(37) Others appear to faithful Mormons to testify that they have converted to Mormonism "on the other side," and to request baptism by proxy so they can advance to godhood. Mormonism also places great emphasis on baptism for the dead, and spiritual visitations are said to be commonplace with the Temples: "The living are thus authorized, under prescribed conditions, to act for the dead, and the fathers and spirit world look to the children in the flesh to perform for them the works which they were unable to attend to while in the body.... This glorious doctrine... regulates the communion of the living with the dead....The temple where the ordinances can be administered for the dead, is the place to hear from the dead."(38)

The last quote about the "communion of the living with the dead" and "the temple...is the place to hear from the dead" was from another Lds "apostle," Charles Penrose (footnote 38 -- Charles W. Penrose, Mormon Doctrine (Salt Lake City, Utah: Juvenile Instructor's Office, 1888), pages 40-41; see also Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, Volume XIX, page 229).

BTW, Mormons proclaim how close to the spirit world they are in their Sunday School lessons and even BYU classes on genealogy.

Sources: Religion 261 BYU class from several years ago Introduction to LDS Family History (Genealogy) Student Syllabus found at: BYU occult stories in syllabus and LDS Sunday School Lesson

[dps.inspect]

I don’t like reading books on FR... make your point and move on... sheesh... Write your book and advertise it, I’ll decide then whether I want to read it.

[Colofornian]

From the article: The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...."(46) During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...."(47) On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...."(48) Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...."(49) Mormon writer Joseph Hienerman likewise described such things as personages of light, auras of light around some of the speakers, strange music, and other manifestations during the dedication of the Mormon temple in Manti, Utah.(50)

Converts sliding on the floor like a serpent?
Acting like they were scalping somebody?
Indicators of demon possession at a high priest session?
A man being thrown through the air and screaming like a panther?
Muttering, unnatural voices and bodily contortions and distortions?
Strange manifestations during the temple dedication at Manti, Utah?

For a merging of several different journal accounts by Mormon missionaries in the 1830s of what is obviously demon possession upon them, see post #7 Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings.

That post was compiled by a Mormon citing the original Mormon journal entries by those Mormon missionaries.

[hondact200]

So is this part of Glenn Becks ulterior motive - the occult practices of Jospeh Smith to beome the new Theocracy in America.

The Mormon church requires that when a husband is dying that he call his wife forward, if she does not come forward, the wife cannot be in heaven with him. Mormonism believes in that people are Gods.

personally i am so tired of the Mormon church in its false teachings and false doctrines. that the US governemnet needs to shut it down as a false church, just another cult. yes it is a cult similar to that of Christian Science Seventh Day Adventist and jehovah Witnesses. all american formed religious experiences based on someone receive an extra revelation from God. Notice the similarities an extra revelation from God. Look at Rick warren he claims he has had extra revelations from God. Robert Schuller (Crystal cathedral fame and now filing for bankruptcy his daughter is the senior pastor), Oral Roberts (seed faith adherent, positive confession name and claim it), Roberts Liardon (homosexual pastor whom fled the Us and serves in Great britain as a homosexual pastor0.

[MacombBob]

I was five paragraphs down before I realized this was not about VeggieTales.

[CynicalBear]

Satan himself was expelled from heaven and condemned to eternal hell for wanting to be and thinking he could be God. We could dissect every theological precept of Mormon theology, debate every difference with Biblical teaching and discuss interpretation of Bible text from now till eternity but would not come to a more conclusive determination as to why Mormon teaching is in error. The original sin of Lucifer was wanting to be and thinking he could be, God. Take heed all those who would be God.

[panaxanax]

>>”If you will lay a bowie knife or a loaded revolver under your pillow every night, you will not have many unpleasant dreams, nor be troubled with the nightmare, for there is nothing that the Devil is so afraid of as a weapon of death.”<<

Sounds like good advice to me.

[blasater1960]

The Cabala is a body of occult doctrine, originally Jewish, which has been adopted with enthusiasm by non-Jewish occultists since the fifteenth century.... Modern occultists are attracted to the Cabala because of its age and its mystery, and because they can draw from it the great magical principles that the universe is a unity, that it has an underlying pattern connected with numbers and planets, that man is God and the universe in miniature, and that man can develop the divine spark within him until he masters the entire universe and himself becomes God.(1)

The author misrepresents Kabbalah (cabala). It does not teach that man can become a god or the all of nature is god. Kabbalah can be twisted into such a thing but Kabbalah, studied within Judaism, under strict guidelines (a person must have a thorough knowlege or Torah, be at least 40 years old, study under a Rabbi who is learned in Kabbalah etc) does not produce a pantheistic result nor a god-man.

Mormonism is a cult offshoot of Christianity and Christianity is a cult offshoot of Jewish doctrine. You should put your investigative efforts into examining your own cultish beliefs.

[MHGinTN]

Placemarker to read later, after the cookin’ is done.

[johngrace]

Thanks Colofornian-I am a Charismatic Catholic. I know the Holy Spirit.I use to avoid these Mormom threads. Then when we had a thread about Christian scripture a mormon posted a Url to a mormon scripture site. I went to it. Well let me tell you that I had the same presence that was at former friend's occultic house presence. I know the occult when I see it. I have never felt a more strong Anti-Christ presence in a so-called religion.

We who are Christian who believe Christ came in the flesh( Divinty became human) have the Lords presence.

1 John 4

Test the Spirits

"1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

Mormon's do not believe this!

I am sorry I know the occult when I see it. Get out of this religion. It's a lie.

I will now be more aggressive towards Mormons. I am sorry but I have to tell the truth. You Mormons may be good citizens to the nation. But your are lacking towards Christ. You are being fooled!

Colofornian keep up the good info!

[Paragon Defender]

Undecided readers,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation. You’ll likely see perfect examples of just this shortly after I post.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

[kbennkc]

I see evidence of trans-kingdom evolution every time I see a post from career religious bigot. They are developing the brains God gave cabbages.