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To: nysuperdoodle

That’s a common mistake, caused by the fact that the terms “brother” and “sister” in the New Testament simply do not mean what we mean by those terms. They also denote various degrees of cousin-hood or in-law relation.

For instance: James, Joseph/Joses, Simon and Judas/Jude are not sons of the Virgin Mary but of Clopas and his wife Mary/Maria.

Mary the wife of Clopas is the “sister” of Mary the mother of Jesus, which makes the “brothers” actually Jesus’ cousins (or possibly even more distant relatives).

In another place, St Paul refers to the apostle James as the Brother of the Lord - but this James is the son of Alphaeus, not the son of Mary or Joseph.

The key to all this confusion: the New Testament wasn’t written in Modern English. Most translations use “brother” when (if they had been written for modern sensibilities) they should have used some word like “relative”.


29 posted on 10/06/2010 8:24:05 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: agere_contra

“Most translations use “brother” when (if they had been written for modern sensibilities) they should have used some word like “relative”.”

Good point


41 posted on 10/06/2010 8:35:38 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: agere_contra

The word used in the Greek is the Greek word for brother not the Greek word for cousin.
Also the scripture is clear that Joseph did not have marital relationship with Mary until after Jesus was born. How is this scripture explained?

“But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus” (Matthew 1:25).

Again, I am asking these questions sincerely and not with malice because I do not understand. I do think that these beliefs are in error but I don’t hate Catholics. In fact I have several close friends that are Catholic (although we never discuss religion). I know there are alot of people that bash other beliefs and hurl insults (on both sides) and I have no interest in doing that.


49 posted on 10/06/2010 8:47:43 AM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3
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To: agere_contra
The key to all this confusion: the New Testament wasn’t written in Modern English. Most translations use “brother” when (if they had been written for modern sensibilities) they should have used some word like “relative”.

They did...They used the word 'cousin' where is was appropriate...Shoots your unbiblical theory out of the sky...

195 posted on 10/08/2010 12:31:05 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: agere_contra; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
agere_contra;
Mary the wife of Clopas is the “sister” of Mary the mother of Jesus, which makes the “brothers” actually Jesus’ cousins (or possibly even more distant relatives).

!!!WRONG!!!

What unmitigated irrational weasel wording.

There would be ABSOLUTELY NO POINT to the whole passage, if the words did not mean blood brother and blood sister in those and similar passages. Cousins et al were so plentiful that the emphasis of the verses and their context would be meaningless, absurd.

And there's this:

The James Ossuary - Evidence of Jesus' Brother?

Update - Oct 30, 2008:  Ossuary Deemed Authentic!

According to an announcement by BAR - Biblical Archeological Society - the inscription on the James Ossuary has been found to be authentic.  The IAA case that has been underway in Israel for over a year, with the intent of trying to prove that the inscription was a fake, has fallen apart.  Uncontested evidence has been produced which proves that the same 'ancient patina' which is found on the front part of the inscription 'James, son of ..." is also found in the tail end of the inscription ".. brother of Jesus".

Quoting BAR:  "In the most recent embarrassment for the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), the government’s star witness, Yuval Goren, former chairman of Tel Aviv University’s institute of archaeology, was forced to admit on cross-examination that there is original ancient patina in the word “Jesus,” the last word in the inscription that reads “James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.”

Authentic, uncontested archeological evidence for
James, an Apostle of the Lord, and for his Brother -
JESUS!

from:

http://www.evidencetobelieve.net/james_ossuary.htm

How Was the James Ossuary Discovered?

The ossuary was purchased in the mid 1970's, but lay dormant in the care of its owner for several decades.  Mr. Golan, being Jewish and not familiar with the details of the Christian faith, had no idea that Jesus may have had a brother. The ossuary was purchased in the mid 1970's, but lay dormant in the care of its owner for several decades.  Mr. Golan, being Jewish and not familiar with the details of the Christian faith, had no idea that Jesus may have had a brother.  Consequently he assigned no importance to the ossuary, and it was ignored by him for many years.  It lay in his basement gathering dust until one day, in the spring of 2002, one of the world's leading experts in ancient Semitic scripts -- Andre Lemaire - was invited to view his collection.  Mr. Golan needed some help understanding some difficult to read inscriptions, and Mr. Lemaire - being a noted epigrapher - was just the person who could help decipher these.

Andre soon visited Mr. Golan in his apartment in Israel.  Mr. Golan showed him several photographs of inscriptions that he had difficulty reading -- including one of a stone ossuary inscribed with "Ya'akov bar Yosef akhui di Yeshua".  His eyes popped, and he immediately recognized the importance of this stone box -- if it was genuine.  The Jesus of the New Testament had never appeared in an archeological context.  If this was indeed the stone ossuary that held the bones of James, the son of Joseph and the brother of Jesus, the find would be nothing less than earth shaking! 

Mr. Lemaire remained cool, as was his habit.  "Very interesting", he said.  He asked to see the stone ossuary first hand, and soon did.  Upon inspection he reported said he "felt good about it".  He also examined the inscription very carefully and found it to be authentic in his professional opinion (see below for details, and Sources at the end of this article).

Did Jesus Have Brothers?

There has been quite a bit of contention about whether or not Jesus had brothers and/or sisters.  But the Bible is very clear that Jesus did indeed have siblings.  Consider these passages:

Notice that in both passages James is named first, indicating he may have been the oldest.

In trying to maintain the perpetual virginity of Mary, some say that the references to brothers and sisters of Jesus in the Gospels are really cousins.  But the word used in these passages is the word for "brother", not "cousin".  There is a perfectly good word for cousin (anepsois), but that word is not used in these passages.  To presume these were the cousins of Jesus is to pervert the plain meaning of the text.

A clear reading of the Gospels also reveals that the Mary's virginity is limited to the birth of Jesus, her first born.  In Matthew 1:24-25 we read: "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.  And he called His name Jesus."  The implication is clear from a plain reading of the text: Joseph did have sexual relations with Mary after the birth of Jesus.

It's also reasonable that Joseph and Mary would continue to have other children.  Evidence indicates they were devout Jews, and as such would be expected to obey the Jewish Law of "be fruitful and multiply". What did the family of Jesus look like?

God ---- Mary-m-Joseph
        |            |
        |            +-----------+-------------+----------+-----------+-----------+
    Jesus    James     Joseph    Simon    Jude    Salome    Mary
                            4 half-brothers                       2 half-sisters

Who was 'James, the brother of Jesus'?

There were several people with the name James who lived during the time of Jesus, and are referred to in the New Testament.  There are of course two of the apostles - James, the son of Zebedee, and James the son of Alphaeus.  But James, the brother of Jesus stands apart. He was clearly identified as the "brother of the Lord" by Paul (see Gal 1:13-19).  Josephus, the famous 1st century Jewish historian, also identifies him as "the brother of Jesus".

What else do we know about James the brother of Jesus?

Is the Inscription on the James Ossuary Authentic?  A Look at the Facts

Could Someone Have Faked The James Ossuary?

Some have argued that the inscription is a forgery.  Is this possible?  Lets consider the accusations and their viability:

Evidence Argues That The James Ossuary is Authentic

All of the evidence to date points to the conclusion that the ossuary, and the inscription, are authentic.  That this stone box once contained the bones of one of the greatest figures of the early Christian church ...

"Ya'akov bar Yosef akhui di Yeshua"

James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus

Sources and Further Information

1 - "The Brother of Jesus", by Hershal Shanks and  Ben Witherington III, p. 57
Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) page on James Ossuary

2 - ibid, p 27.
Royal Ontario Museum web site:
 http://www.rom.on.ca

Biblical Archeological Society page on the James Ossuary:  http://www.bib-arch.org

[PICS FROM THE ARTICLE AT THE RELATED LINK]

BW OF JAMES OSSAURY BOX LOCATION OF INSCRIPTION

INSCRIPTION ON JAMES OSSAURY BOX

233 posted on 10/08/2010 6:54:44 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: agere_contra

What a bunch of nonsense.

Scripture clearly says the carpenter’s son, whose mother is Mary.

What’s with the Catholic obsession that Mary had to be perpetually a virgin? Why was it necessary?

Once the Scripture was fulfilled that a virgin would conceive and bear a son, there was no need for her to remain a virgin.

WHY is it so important to Catholic to teach and believe that Mary was always virgin? How does that affect Jesus ministry here on earth? How does that affect the plan of redemption and salvation through faith in Christ alone?

Mary’s continued virginity, or lack thereof, is totally irrelevant to what Jesus came to earth to do, and that is purchase forgiveness through the shedding of His blood and His death on the cross.

What does Mary and Joseph’s sex life have to do with that?


234 posted on 10/08/2010 7:03:31 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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