Excerpted from the article:
Did Mary Have a Bunch of Kids? Mary's perpetual virginity before, during and after Jesus' birth
See also the much longer and heavily footnoted study:
THE VIRGINITY OF OUR LADY IN PARTU: The Painless, Miraculous Birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ
Forgetting everything else in the article, having her hymen rupture doesn’t make her a non virgin. Sexual intercourse would make her a non virgin. So that particular point is moot.
What kind of a confirmation is it, that has the phrase...’IF xxxxx happened, then yyyyy is possible’?
This is edging rather high on the creepy question scale. And i can’t really see how it matters at all to the truth of Christian theology. Does it say anywhere in the Bible that it was a painless birth?
I don’t understand why explicit information about the post-birth status of Mary’s innards is important to Christianity.
SnakeDoc
I’m curious about James and Judas (the Judas mentioned in Acts) - weren’t they Jesus’ half-brothers? My understanding is that Jesus was sired by God through Mary, and that James and Judas were sired by Joseph through her...how does that reconcile with perpetual virginity?
Gross. I think a decent amount of respect for Mary - or pretty much anybody - precludes an unhealthy interest in her vagina.
“Pope Martin in 649 AD defined the doctrine that Mary”
I understand that Catholics believe in a semi-divine nature for Mary, and im not insulting that belief. But i will freely question the ability of a man who lived 650 years later to speak authoritatively on the topic.
If i tried to discuss the effects of childbirth on a woman from the year 1350, people would think i was deranged.
And the method of the birth of Christ in no way impacts his message and gift of redemption.
I guess I'm just not sure, yet.
Good question, though.
More speculation on the part of the Roman Catholic Church. Their quest for elevation of Mary to some level above normal human being is never ending.
WHO CARES?!
weirdos.
I’ll tell ya who’s causing who pain. YOU are causing ME a pain in my head. So Knock it off!
Is this article real? More emphasis on the gospel and less emphasis on Mary’s vajayjay please!
No, next question.
Yes.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”
The Early Church Fathers are almost unanimous in the assertion that the birth was painless and had no loss of Mary’s virginal integrity during the birth. In other words, her Hymen didn’t break. St. Augustine said “Jesus passed through the womb of Mary as a ray of sun passes through glass.”
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Ive never heard of the “ray of sun” theory before but I have heard of the painless birth story...
Personally I have no problem with Mary giving birth the way other women did...
It does not make Jesus any less God just because His mother might have had a bloody, painful time of the labor and delivery...
My concern is with cults who attempt to say Mary remained a virgin because she didnt have sex with a man but with a god..her own god the father in heaven who came down to visit her etc..
Mary “knew” no man nor any god...
There was no physical sex act involved with the conception of Jesus no matter how much some man’s finite mind cannot conceive of any other way...
Jesus was not conceived as we were conceived...
The Bible is quite clear on that...
The Bible also tells us that Mary “brought forth” her first born son...
And she shall bring forth a son, Matthew 1:21
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, Matthew 1:23
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: Matthew 1:25
And, behold, you shalt conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call His name JESUS. Luke 1:31
And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, Luke 2:6, 7
And Mary’s cousin Elizabeth also “brought forth” The same greek term is used..
Now Elisabeth’s full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son. Luke 1:57
the Greek for brought in those verses is tikto meaning to produce, (from seed as a mother, a plant, the earth etc) bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail
a woman cannot “be in travail” if she is having a painless birthing process.
The greek word gennao is used for Elizabeth merely because she did have a sex act involved with the conception of her son, John the Baptist, to procreate, (of the father but by extenstion of the mother) figuratively to regenerate, bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, make, spring.
There was no natural procreating, by a father and a mother, begetting, making, at the conception of the LORD Jesus Christ..
However there was the same bringing forth and travail in His birth for His mother as there was for all women in those days..
Shoot, if you just want to make up stuff “passed through Mary as a ray through a pane of glass” then why don’t you just say Jesus floated intact out of her stomach and hovered in mid-air??
Ed
Jesus said in the New Testament, "no one comes to the father except through me." However, the Catholic Church teaches that Mary is the "co-redemtrix" and is an equally valid pathway to God. This is not biblical.
The gospel accounts clearly say that Jesus had brothers, and Mary had other children. James, the author of the NT book that bears his name, is cited in the NT as the brother of Jesus. Mary could not have "retained her virginal integrity" if she had other children. It makes sense that, after giving a natural birth to Jesus, she and Joseph got married, lived and normal life, and had more children.
The Bible also says that Joseph, Mary's husband, did not "know her" until she had given birth. Meaning, she was not a virgin after Jesus' birth.
I never understood why the Catholic Church had to make Mary into a perpetual virgin anyway. It added nothing to the gospel story or the centrality of Jesus' life, ministry, death, and resurrection.
The early church fathers opinion? References, please. This was suggested by some medieval theologians, but doesn’t go back to the early days of the church, where the church fathers only insisted she was a virgin, i.e. no sexual intercourse with men.
As for Mary having only one child, and no relations with Joseph after Jesus’ birth, this is an ancient belief. And having lived in the third world, it is completely believable by looking at the gospels.
I figure that if she had kids, she would have gone back with them instead of wandering around Jerusalem with Joseph when Jesus was 12. Most women back then had a baby every two years or so. The Orthodox church says his “brothers” were from an elderly Joseph’s first wife, and this also fits them coming to try to get him to come home. In a traditional family, younger brothers would never criticize the actions of the older brother, who is head of the family when the father is dead. Finally, Mary was given to John at Jesus’ death, suggesting she had no kids to care for her.