Posted on 10/04/2010 12:57:36 PM PDT by Amerisrael
Art Vanick, co-author of The Spalding Enigma, Who Really Wrote The Book of Mormon, makes an appearance on Out of Mormonism to address the Glenn Beck Restoring Honor Rally.
Andy, Art, and Roger discuss the ramifications of the rally from a biblical Christian perspective.
Do Christians understand that Mormonism is different than biblical Christianity?
[ These are two separate "Out of Mormonism" radio podcasts from Mesa, Arizona. Very interesting.]
While Mormonism may not pose the violent / stealth and political threat that Islam does, from a spiritual standpoint, it is just as dangerous.
(Excerpt) Read more at outofmormonism.libsyn.com ...
Wait a second...
"Mormons worship God The Father. Mormons worship Jesus Christ"
Dictionary.com has it broken in two parts as “the worship of or belief in more than one god.”
"Jesus Christ is a God and God the Father is a God "
We believe in more than one God too.
Um, KM, that is more than one god that you worship AND believe in then...
"YOu try to obfusicate the argument by claiming only one definition of polytheism in an attempt to discredit Mormon Doctrine in more than one god."
You just claimed both in this one paragraph...
And one wonders why we question Mormonism...
BTW I won't get into the contradiction of claiming obfuscation then in your own words negating that obfuscation by stating as fact the very thing being claimed as the subject of said attempt...
BTW #2 DU, you assured me the Mormons were not Polytheistic what so ever and you provided the same definition in your posting a while back, so what say you?
Ok, going on from my post above where you take issues with the "worship" part of the definition of Polytheism (then turn around and say LDS worship both the father and your Christ, two separate gods) you now take it even further.
So we have Exalted Mormons who have Mormon children who of course are Mormons, worshiping their God parents, whom I would think it is safe to say they believe in as well.
So now, if we can safely assume that at least a few Mormons since 1830ish time period have exalted, we have at least a few planets out there populated by Mormons worshiping AND believing in their local god(s) (The plural assuming another "son" was made a savior locally)
So we have the definition of Polytheism, from Dictionary.com (among others) as you and at least one other Mormon has given:
the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods.
The definition that you say initially was being obfuscated by MHGinTN but now you have VERIFIED twice with your statements as being true by BOTH portions of the given and agreed upon definition.
I don't expect a redaction of the obfuscation charge or even a reasoned response, indeed I expect spin and blather trying to point out MY obfuscation, lack of knowledge, and limit intellect, along with some patronizing insults, but there is always hope.
KM, I believe you when you say you did this all by yourself...
Now I REALLY want to send a couple of our highly trained young folks to your home, so that you and your loving family can more fully understand the Restored Gospel© that only we, The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, has the FULL authority to distribute over the world.
--MormonDude(Think of us as the last franchise)
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things
What does the Holy Ghost tell you about the Book of ABARHAM - another MORMON scripture?
HE used an ASS once, and, therefore, by extension, HE can use me.
You are right!
2 Corinthians 2:14-16
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
_________________________________________________________
Seeing as how my wife is LDS I think I have some special insights to this matter. I don't find her beliefs distasteful or contradictory to Christian beliefs.
Do they believe in multiple gods? Yes kind of. But that needs to be explained. The way they see it God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three individuals who form a Godhead. They are unified. If you see Jesus He looks like God because He is His Son.
Do Mormons believe they become gods? Well yes but that too needs some explanation. If someone from the throne of God came to earth and people saw him in his glory and saw what he could do, miracles etc., we would call him a god. In the same way when we have gone to heaven and become joint heirs with Christ the Mormons believe that such persons seen on earth would be like a god. They don't think they will ever become equal to God The Father or Jesus only that they will be much more than we are now so that people in our current condition could only refer to them as gods.
Now, what may seem a little different is that Mormons believe that if they ever attain this level then they can continue to have children and populate worlds of their own in which they will be god to that world. They will always be subject to God but they will ever progress. Ok, all you Mormons if you see it differently this is the way I see if from what my wife says, don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.
My, for a n00b you surely have a grasp of the FR site. Many of us that have been here for years found that being able to post in different colored text took at LEAST a day or so.
Hum...
Did I just see a resurgence of that elsewhere?
We all fall short of the glory of God.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Chriistian words...
However the mormons use a different dictionary.....
Mormonism is not Christianity...
Didn't you study logic fallacies in college? "I know the book of Mormon is true because the book of Mormon says I will feel this way if it is true, and I feel this way, so it's true."
C'mon, think how many things in your life you KNEW were true and of course they weren't, from Santa, to your first love, to housing values always going up.
Even the Muslims know better than to rely on feelings.
Even the Muslims have more substantiation for their prophet. They don't just have proof, they have TWELVE PROOFS
We all fall short of the glory of God.
_____________________________________________
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Christian words...
However the mormons use a different dictionary.....
Mormonism is not Christianity...
Our total inadaquacy to bridge the gap to God on our own combined with our rebellious sinful natures makes the grace of God toward us even more overwhelming at times. It is little wonder that anti-depressant and mental health issues are high in mormon country.
“I’m not able to communicate to you what has been communicated to me, so I can’t give you the proof you are asking for — only God can do that.”
You are wrong on two counts: First, that you ASSUME you
were communicated to by God. Please don’t blame HIM
for believing in non-Biblical things, like polytheism.
“It appears your mind is made up for now, but if the time comes that you have a change of heart regarding the Book of Mormon, I would encourage you to follow the counsel of Moroni:”
Second, I don’t go to demons to find truth that contradicts
what God has already said in the Bible! Really, Normandy.
If it contradicts what God has already said clearly, than
praying about it is a stupid approach. All that accomplishes is moving you from the ground of objective truth to subjective feelings.
And that is where you are today, Normandy. In feeling
land...
Without Facts
Without evidence
Without any logical basis
Without anything to verify your feelings
In short, you’ve driven your car into a ditch and you
have no way to know it isn’t the highway. Turn your
radio up and pretend you see traffic.
Best,
ampu
Here's a little essay I posted on another thread which seeks to address the identity of the One God based upon the work He is doing:
When one claims the trinity is a blasphemous notion--as Mormonism apologist, Delphi User, has done boldly, one immediately sets oneself against the Bible and God's Grace in Christ. The following will be 'a way' to understand the notion of the trinitarian nature of the Diety, not a strictly Biblical explanation, but one which is applicable to the teaching of the Bible. Here goes:
God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus greater than dimension time and dimension space, thus we may think of The Father Almighty as beyond time and space but not prevented from touching and indeed penetrating His creation.
The universe of space and time is likened to a bubble: what is inside the bubble is in time and space. But the nature of what is inside the bubble is only partially understood in modern Physics.
The Bible relates scenes which defy the simplistic notions we use for assumptive science. We'll get to that 'assumptive' notion shortly, but let us make the statement that God The Father Almighty is as comfortable outside the bubble as He is inside the bubble.
Modern Physics has discovered that the balance of forces and tensions sustaining the universe necessary for human life to arise within the universe is extrmeely delicate, on the order of a mathematical improbability, represented as a 'one in less than' fraction so tiny that a one over a one followed by more than one-hundred zeros defines the probability that the whole thing remains in balance! Such a delicate balancing act is but one of the continuing 'works' of the Holy Spirit of God. It is by the Spirit of God, The Word, that the universe came into existence and it is said in the Bible that by His Spirit the whole is maintained.
But the Bible also states that The Word was with God in the beginning and was God. In JOhn's gospel we find that Jesus is The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us. So, inside the bubble Created by The Father Almighty, sustained by God The Holy Spirit, is the Word, God made flesh Who dwelt among us. The Creator does not stop being greater than His creation bubble, nor does His Spirit cease to sustain it all in balance, when Jesus comes in the flesh to dwell among us.
Here's an address to 'assumptive science limitations': Now, when one reads the Old Testament, one finds scenes like the fifth chapter of Daniel where a being is in one spacetime 'where/when' reaching into another 'where/when' to write on the palace party central wall of king Belshazzar. Just the forearm/hand is seen in the where/when of Belshazzar and the party folks, the rest of the being remains in 'another' where/when.
God The Father Almighty created this 'other' where/when, His Holy Spirit maintains its balance and separateness from our where/when, and Jesus has moved in and out of this other where/when: as shown when He resurrected from the tomb without rolling away the stone, just passing out of the tomb where/when, into 'another' where/when; then back into our where/when as He spoke to the women come to the sepulchre; and when He appeared in a locked and shuttered room with the disciples present; or appeared suddenly with the disciples walking on a road and broke bread with them then left our where/when to go to the 'other' where/when.
The trinitarian nature of God is shown in the Bible, even in the Old Testament. Trinity IS the nature of God as we have been given to know. Even in the Old Testament, we do have instruction on the Three nature of God as Creator, Sustainer, and Sojourner/Soter. God Is manifested as three yet one, seen identified by 'the work He is doing'.
With each manifestation, we are given to realize His presence simultaneously as Creator--because we exist in the realm He created, as Sustainer--because the balance is too delicate to stand alone without His sustaining the separation and interdependence, and as God with us in the person of Jesus our Lord and Savior.
Do you feel the same about the mormons and mormon missionaries telling Christians and people of other faiths "anti" information regarding their faiths when proselytizing?
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