Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
Reduced to employing tu quoque? I notice in this response, however, what has become [an] emblematic approach over the course of many different threads: a variable skepticism coupled with avoidance. One or the other is dialed back low on some things or cranked up to 11 on others. I have seen this approach used over the years by others. There are a number of things it could mean:Based on the content of those topics that elicit the greatest degree of skepticism or avoidance, one could infer that those exhibiting this are most highly skeptical of or exhibiting avoidance about something which, if correct and if they should persist in the world view that runs contrary to it, poses for them the highest level of existential threat. As such, their approach doesn't represent following truth no matter where it leads them and then changing their beliefs to conform to it. It is, rather, the equivalent of moving closer to or farther from the fire in order to maintain a constant level of comfort or to avoid too much discomfort, an exercise in philosophical homeostasis.
Of course, the variable degrees of skepticism may only happen to appear to point to a core principle of avoidance, in which case one could infer that the skepticism is just something they happen to do to the degree needed, depending on how they happen to feel at the moment, to maximize the pleasure they take in attempting to undermine the position of another, an example of sniping by opportunistic, philosophical hedonists.
Still, one could just be imputing purpose where none exists and it's all just something, like fluctuating neurotransmitter levels, for which there is neither rhyme nor reason.
I do not believe that any man is a lost cause. You may repent on your deathbed and the Lord Jesus Christ may have mercy on you. It's not up to me.
Enjoy your “purgatory.” (what if it never ends?)
It's not my Purgatory. It's God's as outlined in Scripture. Is Purgatory actually of any duration? Remember that once we die, we are out of Time, in the same 'existance' whatever that means, that God is. If you cannot debate Purgatory from Scripture, then please don't attempt it at all. Your wishes are not necessarily God's.
I didn't say they were the original (meaning "first") NT manuscripts, hand-written originals (not reprinted). Biblical scholars get to read the hand-written parchments and papyri, not photocopies, or reprints.
I didn't realize I needed to be more specific when everyone knows there are no originals (as in first copy) know to exist. But thanks for pointing this out. I guess I have to be more specific.
You mean that people who shout the loudest are often those whose meaning is the opposite of the meaning that they really mean? Like the folks who cry Lord, Lord and declaim any personal responsibility or any personal initiative in any of their doings, yet arrogantly self-describe personal salvation right here and now? Even though Scripture and Church teachings are very clear?
Be reverent boatbums!
We've in our midst one called to critique the very word of God.
"not snippets of Isaiah - who doesn't tell us of the divinity of Christ"
Isa. 54:Must be a different Isaiah, huh? - This one made no mistakes, and is the greatest of all the prophets; the one that told the whole epic.
[5] For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Yup, them folks. :)
Even though Scripture and Church teachings are very clear?
Luther's ideas are much more pleasing to the human soul. With Reformation you get to be the little devil you always wanted to be (we can't help it, right?), and still get you rewards. It's like being in school without passing a single test, and still graduating—guaranteed! Doesn't get much better than that.
The only trick is getting in, and even that is up to you (just say the magic words "I believe..."). Once you're in, sit back, relax and enjoy the ride (tailor-made to our taste)...as they say, too good to be true. :)
No Mark, God has no purgatory!
It is nowhere to be found in the entirety of scripture, and exists in the tortured imaginations of supposed believers.
It is you that cannot debate purgatory from scripture, because you cannot debate what does not exist. So do not pretend to do it at all; your imaginations and fears are definitely not God’s.
> “Like the folks who cry Lord, Lord and declaim any personal responsibility or any personal initiative in any of their doings, yet arrogantly self-describe personal salvation right here and now?”
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Live by the strawman - Die in it’s pyre!
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Well, listen again. One is not free to be as evil as you wanna be. There are consequences to sinning that do not affect your ultimate salvation.
Besides, one who is saved is NOT going to want to choose to do evil or sin all they want. It's not in their nature any more.
We have been set Free. The Catholic way results in bondage to rules and regulations and fear.
Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
And fear is what Catholicism is all about. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of missing the mark and going to hell. It's what keeps people running to confession all the time, compels them to not miss mass because of the threat of mortal sin, fear of taking a newborn out before it's been baptized lest something happen to the child and it end up in Limbo. Fear pervades the Catholic church.
The toe the line because of fear of the consequences, not out of love for God and a desire to do His will to glorify Him.
It's?
Amen!
Catholicism in a nutshell!
Consequences? Like you won't get a penthouse apartment in the sky with a view?
Besides, one who is saved is NOT going to want to choose to do evil or sin all they want. It's not in their nature any more
Protestants keep repeating this, but where's the proof? And just how much are you allowed to sin?
Must be a different Isaiah, huh? - This one made no mistakes, and is the greatest of all the prophets; the one that told the whole epic.
Ask an observant Jew if this is Jesus Christ referred to. He'll tell you no. But let's look at other wisdom of Isaiah:
Isaiah 7:13 Then he said: Listen, O house of David! Is it not enough for you to weary men, must you also weary my God? 14 7 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. 15 8 He shall be living on curds and honey by the time he learns to reject the bad and choose the good. 16 For before the child learns to reject the bad and choose the good, the land of those two kings whom you dread shall be deserted.
Let's see what he has here. God gets hacked off if you bug Him too often. Jesus will be called Immanuel, which He isn't. The NT is full of fish and bread, not curds and honey (unless you are John the Baptist, that is); Jesus the Lord has to learn between good and evil and to choose correctly (I guess being Incarnate has made Jesus less than perfect), and there are no records of any desertions of lands during the childhood of Jesus.
Isaiah also predicts the desolation and abandonment of Damascus (now currently one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world) and of the lands of Babylon - I guess that all of our troops over there were shooting at camels, right? If you actually read Isaiah, you might be surprised at just how much he gets wrong.
It is nowhere to be found in the entirety of scripture, and exists in the tortured imaginations of supposed believers.
It is you that cannot debate purgatory from scripture, because you cannot debate what does not exist. So do not pretend to do it at all; your imaginations and fears are definitely not God’s.
I laid it all out for you and called you specifically to view the post. The Scripture is from Jesus, Paul and John. Why do you not debate it and just merely dismiss it?
Isn't this the name of a heavy metal song?
> “Ask an observant Jew if this is Jesus Christ referred to.”
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Why would I ask anything of someone that God’s word plainly says is just as blind as you are?
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Isaiah wrote of the whole epic, and when the tribulation is over, all the things that your denier’s mind question will be fulfilled. God does nothing by your timetable.
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> “Isn’t this the name of a heavy metal song?”
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Surely you would know far more than I about such things!
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> “I laid it all out for you and called you specifically to view the post.”
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And I replied fully as possible, considering that nothing you posted had anything to do with “purgatory,” unsurprisingly, since purgatory is naught but fearful imaginings of unbelievers that refuse the plain words of God.
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Okay. Shoot.
One is not free to be as evil as you wanna be. There are consequences to sinning that do not affect your ultimate salvation.
What are they? And where can I find them in Scripture? You're not seriously proposing the so-often debunked prosperity gospel are you?
Besides, one who is saved is NOT going to want to choose to do evil or sin all they want. It's not in their nature any more.
Well, then, do you choose evil and sin or not? If not, then who chooses it for you? Can you give me an example of somebody whose nature is not to sin and evil? What is the acceptable level of sin and evil? And please back it up with Scripture, if you would be so kind.
And fear is what Catholicism is all about. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of missing the mark and going to hell. It's what keeps people running to confession all the time, compels them to not miss mass because of the threat of mortal sin, fear of taking a newborn out before it's been baptized lest something happen to the child and it end up in Limbo. Fear pervades the Catholic church.
Do I sound fearful? Does any other Catholic on FR? It's not fear. It's love. We love God and the Church. We understand His love for us. We also understand that He has issued instructions to us. Do you guys think that the Two Great Commandments of Jesus are actually suggestions, or only apply to non Christians?
The toe the line because of fear of the consequences, not out of love for God and a desire to do His will to glorify Him.
I don't know where you're finding these Catholics, but growing up in a very Catholic city in a Catholic country, I had none of these experiences.
No relation to Catholicism. A comic book version of it promulgated by someone who opposes it.
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