Posted on 05/13/2010 11:22:06 AM PDT by markomalley
To answer your question. re:Let me ask you: Are you resigned to going to hell, or have you attained a state of sinlessness?
When a Catholic sins he can avail himself of the sacrament of penance (confession to a priest),and if he is truly remorseful for his sins, he is forgiven by God, and walks out of the confessional having "attained a state of sinlessness". A Catholic can also immediately "attained a state of sinlessness" by doing what is callled a perfect act of contrition. To perform a perfect act of contrition, a person must intend to go to confession with a priest the first chance that he gets.
Therefore, a Catholic, once he has sinned, can regain the "state of sinlessness" by confession of a perfect act of contrition, and thus practically remain all his life in "a state of sinlessness". Despite all that, amazingly, I doubt that more than 1% of Catholics avail themselves of these two remedies altogether, or are not truly resolved to stop sinning, and thus do not do a proper confession. A Catholic for example that is divorced and remarried can confess that sin, and it is good for nothing if he remains in the adulterous 2nd marriage.
A Protestant has no means of having his sins forgiven, because they will not confess their sins to a valid priest. Thus they have no way of receiving sanctifying grace from God. They can never be in a state of sanctifying grace, the Holy Ghost will not dwell in their soul. Sanctifying grace is that grace which confers on our souls a new life, that is, a sharing in the life of God Himself. A Protestant can only receive actual grace, a grace that is given by God for the performance of salutary acts and is present and disappears with the action itself.
Why such arrogance about your particular expression of Christ’s Church?
The idea of one sort of Platonic "ideal form" of Christ's Church with many, equally valid particular expressions is not a slam-dunk. And it is not an idea we agree with.
Presumably people get into this or that 'denomination' because of doctrine, at least sometimes. Are all doctrines equally good? Does doctrine not matter? Or do some doctrines matter while others do not? Who gets to say which ones are important?
If one church says abortion is okay, while another says it is a very grave sin, does that simply not matter? Is all salved over by our Lord's forgiveness? Or can a life of objective evil (if there is any such thing -- I think there is) have serious consequences for the perpetrator?
The answers, I think, cannot be equally good. Either we Catholics have the lives of mothers who had their unwanted babies on our hands,or those who disagree with us have the lives of the dead babies on their hands.
The existence of different bodies, all claiming to be valid "instances" of Christ's body is a very grave matter. If it is of no importance,why don't you, in the interests of peace become a Catholic?
I won’t become a Roman Catholic because some of the doctrines I cannot in good, biblically-informed conscience accept. Some of the doctrines about Mary, for example (the Immaculate Conception, the assumption of Mary, her perpetual virginity, her distinct ability to influence Jesus) are unacceptable.
That said, I do appreciate your concern over sound doctrine, and agree with you that not all doctrines are equally good. Abortion matters, a life characterized by evil fruit matters, the Lord’s forgiveness matters.
If you’re a follower of Christ, if you’ve repented and now He is Lord of your life, if you’ve been adopted into His family, then you’re a member of His church — just like a hand or foot or tongue or ear are members of the same body. We may have different senior pastors, each of whom has ultimately received his ordination from Jesus’ commission, but we are members of the same body of Christ.
I'll also pass over the matter of who has or does not have an apostolic commission.
I guess I think that one of the jobs of the Church is to proclaim the Gospel. If pastor A says abortion is sometimes okay, pastor B says sometimes people have a duty to use artificial contraception, and pastor C says neither abortion nor artificial contraception is okay, then somebody's wrong.
HOW does that matter? IF it matters, how is one to choose among these pastors?
How do you know I'm Roman Catholic? As opposed to say, Byzantine Catholic? I would that you understand what Catholic actually means.
It’s clear that I’m unable to address MarkBsnr’s attacks and vulgarity.
Then don't post any of your own. I engage in serious discussion with those who seriously discuss theology. There are a number of, for instance, Reformed folks whom I have some very respectful debates with. These individuals don't call Catholics by the usual names that many of the unwashed and unlettered do. Therefore we can engage, rather than destroy.
It is about worshiping God, not doing whatever it is that your particular group does on Sundays or Wednesdays or whatever day it chooses. God is above us all; he is not a beer buddy that we kick back with.
Do you see the contradiction? How can you have a 'relationship' with an entity that you cannot understand? We pray that God will extend Himself down to us and bring us to eternal salvation. We don't consider Him somebody that we go fishing with.
Jesus called the Apostles friends, When Jesus in the flesh calls you for dinner and calls you friend, perhaps you might have a video camera running.
And a bonus for MarkBsnr — Jesus reveals his submissive relationship with His Father in the final phrase.
The final irony - you have posted one of the few verses that do not show explicit subordinationism.
You reject the clear teaching of Scripture. Life is *all about* relationship.
Specific questions: Have you ever heard of “The Wedding Supper of the Lamb”? What does that mean to you?
You know what? Don’t worry about responding. You only care to argue. The sad thing is that I fear I may never meet you in heaven if you continue the cynical path you’re trodding.
You haven't posted any Scripture that backs up what you are saying. When you do, then we have something to discuss.
Specific questions: Have you ever heard of “The Wedding Supper of the Lamb”? What does that mean to you?
I would appreciate it if you post chapter and verse so that I can read it directly in Scripture.
You know what? Don’t worry about responding. You only care to argue. The sad thing is that I fear I may never meet you in heaven if you continue the cynical path you’re trodding.
I don't think that you should give up. I shall pray for you. There is hope for everyone. I shall look for you when I am there.
Dude, I have posted so much Scripture on this thread, all of it supporting what I’m saying. You just prefer ignorance, apparently. Read back through — I’m just about the only one quoting Scripture.
You don’t even care to research The Wedding Supper of the Lamb. I mentioned it, AND PROVIDED THE SCRIPTURE REFERENCE, in comment 56. You’ve presumably never heard of it. For someone so ignorant of Scripture, you sure do have some strong opinions about it.
Again, why the chip on your shoulder against me?
You might want to post Scripture that actually supports your position.
You don’t even care to research The Wedding Supper of the Lamb. I mentioned it, AND PROVIDED THE SCRIPTURE REFERENCE, in comment 56. You’ve presumably never heard of it. For someone so ignorant of Scripture, you sure do have some strong opinions about it.
Revelation 19: 9 Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed 5 are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These words are true; they come from God."
This backs up nothing of your statements.
Again, why the chip on your shoulder against me?
The $64,000 question. Well, let us look at some of your unsupported statements on this thread:
Typical. Roman Catholic FReepers hate those who follow Christ
So for you, Rome is your savior, not Christ. I have to say, you defame Jesus.
The body of people known as the Roman Catholic Church became apostate, heretical, blasphemous, idolatrous, adulterous, perverted
May Christ be exalted and may Rome diminish.
Talk amongst yourselves, about how the Christ-follower is deceived because he trusts in Jesus as his Savior and Lord, and not in Rome.
Let me ask you: Are you resigned to going to hell, or have you attained a state of sinlessness? You are so hung up on your church that you diminish Jesus.
How dare you post that image to me, encouraging me to lust after these women.
MarkBsnr has asked for chapter and verse, a potentially dangerous practice
Mark has just been acting antagonistically toward me, and I figured someone else may be able to get through to him. God affirms mediation and peace-making
You know what? Don’t worry about responding. You only care to argue. The sad thing is that I fear I may never meet you in heaven if you continue the cynical path you’re trodding.
Why? I detest stupid, insufferable, idiotic, insular, unlearned, self righteous, delusional, and pompous gits.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Thank you. I affirm your request.
(Applause!!!)
Are you applauding because he called me “stupid, insufferable, idiotic, insular, unlearned, self righteous, delusional, and pompous” because I quote Scripture and promote Christ? That’s downright godly of you.
That is not the reason for my applause.
Let's get to where the rubber meets the road, LIVING the faith (by their deeds you shall know them):
Do you believe that, whether people partake in impure touching, fornicate before marriage, shack up, marry civil only, divorce from a marriage before God, abort children conceived in a rape, watch immoral programs and movies like Desperate Housewives, watch pornography, go to strip clubs, go to the beach to look at the naked girls... IT”S ALL OK FOR THEM, as long as they “have a relationship with Christ”, they are all saved?
Excellent future copy and paste material. Thanks. Will save me time.
Let's get to where the rubber meets the road, LIVING the faith (by their deeds you shall know them):
Do you believe that, whether people partake in impure touching, fornicate before marriage, shack up, marry civil only, use contraceptives, divorce from a marriage before God, abort children conceived in a rape, watch immoral programs and movies like Desperate Housewives, watch pornography, go to strip clubs, go to the beach to look at the naked girls... IT”S ALL OK FOR THEM, as long as they “have a relationship with Christ”, they are all saved?
As long as I get 10% of the revenue ....
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