Are Mormons Christian? Inquiry into the Church of Latter Day Saints, a peculiarly American Religion

Bible Probe ^

[delacoert]

They teach/have taught: Jesus is not Emmanuel, Adam is God, and Salvation is by Works

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims that the name of the Church was given to Joseph Smith by revelation. However, when Smith first organized the Church in 1830, it was called the "Church of Christ," then four years later the name was changed to the "Church of Latter-day Saints," then in 1838, it was changed again, this time to the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"..

Regardless that Jesus told us "God is Spirit", Mormons reject the unified Trinity and teach that God has a body of flesh and blood. 
 

Most Mormons are good, God fearing people who believe in Christ as the Savior, the Redeemer, the Son of God, the Creator of the earth, and the only source of salvation.  Who can doubt their love for God after sitting through a wonderful Christmas celebration by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?  What can one make of this?  Yet many of their doctrines are heretical to most Christians.   Most Mormons are good, God-fearing people.  But like Islam, Scientology, and Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism rejects the Gospel of Jesus -- and therefore these push their members away from the true road to salvation. Jews also reject this.  But as Paul says--Jews have been supernaturally blinded.  Most important, however, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is their personal Savior.

Some say Mormons present a "gendered, married and procreating god" with "a body of flesh and bones."  This despite Jesus telling us God is Spirit. 

Mormons reject the Triune God. 
The Jesus of Mormonism is not co-eternal with the Father and of one substance with the Father, which most Christians believe.

The three persons of the Godhead are, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19)

Mormonism says: Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, were spirit brothers and sons of God before the spirit of Jesus was given a body by Mary in Bethlehem. The Mormon "Book of Moses" presents Satan and Jesus as contending for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. [See Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:1-4.]

Mormonism also teaches that Jesus was the physical son of God the Father and Mary, and that there is nothing in His life more than what is attainable by anyone else.
 

However, while Mormonism is based on a biblical belief in Jesus as the Christ, the teachings of Mormonism concerning God and Man (expounded first circa 1840 near the end of Smith's life) extend far beyond the biblical narrative in ways rejected by most traditional Christian churches.  Mormons believe that God the Father is completely separate from Jesus Christ; that God the Father is the father of us all, and of his son, Jesus Christ, and of all the evil spirits, including Satan. Mormons have a creed similar to New Agers.  The LDS did once teach that "We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."  In Joseph Smith's own words we can become like God  (''what God is").  However, they have apparently changed this teaching in recent years. They now teach: "We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."

 

• "Mormons won't tell you that all their so-called scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and even their official 'Mormon Doctrine' statements contradict each other…"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that the reason the Book of Mormon has no maps is because there is not one scrap of archaeological evidence to support it!"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that their prophet Joseph Smith was an ex-Mason who was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism."
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that that "Mormons won't tell you that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world". This is clearly a practice forbidden by God". See Deuteronomy 18:10-12
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that they think "familiar spirits" are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a "familiar spirit".
  
  Leviticus 19:31 says: Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
  
  Leviticus 20:6
  And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that those Mormons who have been through their temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil". This "evil" includes non-Mormons like you and me".
   
• "Mormons won't tell about their secret temple rites at all. If they did, you would spot them as non-Christians immediately."
  
   

See more things "Mormons won't tell you: here
 

 Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan"

Mormon beliefs are considered to be so far outside the beliefs of most Christians that the Roman Catholic Church, Presbyterians and the United Methodist Church all declared that Mormon converts must be re-baptized, a setback to the Mormon Church's effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.  The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are "not the baptism that Christ instituted."  The ruling was a departure from the Catholic Church's usual practice of recognizing the baptisms of converts from most other churches. The Vatican held that the Mormon view of the nature of God was too different from Catholicism's.  Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan".

Statue of Moroni

Jesus told us, there would only be one more revelation of truth that would come after Him. John 14:17, 16:7 & 13 tell us that Jesus said a "Spirit of Truth" (not a man - a Spirit), the Comforter would come after He Himself departed. This Comforter was to guide us "into all truth". So there would then be no truth remaining which would be sealed or hidden. This was Jesus’ way of saying there would be only one more revelation of Truth after him. We know, that this was the Comforter who descended on the apostles gathered together on Pentecost. There have been no others.

According to Mormon tradition, the angel Moroni is the heavenly messenger who first visited Joseph Smith on the night of September 21-22, 1823. Adherents of Latter-day Saint theology believe that Moroni is a prophet who lived in North America in the late 4th century. In 1827, Moroni supposedly delivered golden plates to Joseph Smith, which are the record of Moroni's people -- ancient Americans known as Nephites and Lamanites.  The golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon and magic translation stones were supposedly buried beneath a hill in Palmyra, New York. Since Joseph Smith was the only witness to the appearance of Moroni, and only eight others (all converts rather than disinterested witnesses) claim to have seen the golden plates--there is little to corroborate Smith's story.  Most of these so-called witnesses later left the Mormon Church. Smith says that these valuable plates were lost.   

In the Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, page 164, Brigham Young stated:

"...witnesses of the Book of Mormon who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel."

A worrisome note smacking of what Jesus was against is that the foundation of the practice of the Mormon church is priesthood authority. Another of Joseph Smiths doctrines was polygamy, a practice that Smith denied publicly but practiced secretly. That doctrine was the obvious downfall of Joseph Smith; he was killed during a shot out in 1844, as a result of the polygamy controversy.

The Book of Mormon shows every indication of being written by a rather uneducated man, who plagiarized most of it from the King James version of the Bible.  Amazing little knowledge of Judaism and 4th-century Judea is noted in the Book of Mormon. This Book of Mormon shares a common denominator with another such contrived book.  Both the Muslim Qu'ran and the Book of Mormon exhibit gross chronological errors.
 

In Galatians 1:6-9 Paul says;

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than ye have received, let him be accursed."

Would this mean that Mormons and Masonic Worshipful Masters and other Masonic instructors are under the curse of God?  Don't both of these preach the contrary doctrine that "salvation is by works" - as if they can earn credit points towards earning a celestial reward? This is exactly the wrong reasons for charity work and helping your fellow man/women. Doing it only because of your love for Jesus and obedience to his loving message to "love one another" is the correct motivation - knowing that you are only saved by His grace. Isn't this new Mormon 19th century Doctrine in violation of what Paul speaks of and warns about above?  

Islam and Mormonism have similar roots/leaders.  Both have prophets who made no prophecies, nor showed any sort of divinity, or even divine inspiration.  History has shown that both were opportunists and murdered up to the end, also.  Both taught salvation by works.

Joseph Smith, the opportunist and ex-Mason

Smith went out blazing his gun away - first killing two people
 

Jesus never said a true prophet would appear in the last days. Rather, He said false prophets would arise who would deceive, if possible, the very elect.

 

Why would Joseph Smith pull off the Mormon charade? Let's listen to what another opportunist/cult leader wrote:

Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard declared in the late 1940s: “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion.”

While present-day Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith, there seems to be evidence that Smith wanted to elevate himself almost to the same level as Jesus Christ.

Josiah Quincy related that when he visited Joseph Smith in 1844, "the prophet put this inquiry: 'Is not here one greater than Solomon, who built a Temple with the treasures of his father David and with the assistance of Huram [sic], King of Tyre? Joseph Smith has built his Temple with no one to aid him in the work.' " (Figures of the Past, as cited in Among the Mormons, p. 138)

    The History of the Church contains some statements which seem to show that Joseph Smith felt he was almost equal with God:

 "God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it." (vol. 6, pp.319-320)

 

Mormons want you to believe their "prophet", Joseph Smith was martyred:

In 1838, when Oliver Cowdery accused Joseph Smith of adulterous affairs, Joseph had Oliver excommunicated. The controversy over polygamy was the underlying reason for the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. William Law's wife had confessed that she had an affair with Joseph. William Law left the Church and started a publication called "Nauvoo Expositor." One issue was published and the second one was going to print when Joseph found out that William Law was going to print his wife's confession in that issue. Joseph had the press destroyed and the building burned. That caused his arrest and, consequently, his death.

Writing about Joseph Smith, the Mormon church "Prophet" and founder --John Taylor, third president of the Church of Latter Day Saints wrote in the "Gospel Kingdom," page 360:

"Joseph opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times... afterwards (I) understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."

The same account is also in the History of the Church, vol. 6, p. XLI and pages 617-618. 

It was too bad that Joseph Smith was thus killed, but he did not die like a martyr who went "as a lamb to the slaughter" as is claimed by the LDS Church. HE DIED IN A GUNFIGHT, and killed two people before he was shot. Joseph acted as a Mason at the time of his death. John Taylor tells also that Joseph went to the window and made a Masonic distress sign after his gun was empty, hoping that Masons, if there were any among this mob, would rescue him, according to the Masonic oath "to defend one another, right or wrong."

How Joseph Smith died - in a blazing gunfight:

After a brief struggle--during which Joseph Smith, who had armed himself with a smuggled pepperbox revolver, reached around the doorjamb and fired all six chambers--Hyrum fired through the door and was struck in the face by a mobber's bullet. He was hit by three more shots and died. Joseph leaped to the window, where he became an excellent target for those outside as well as the intruders on the stairway. Two shots from the doorway struck him in the back; a third, fired from the ground outside, penetrated his chest. "O Lord. My God!" he screamed, and plunged to earth.

The Mormon Temple Ceremony compares quite exactly with the Masonic Ceremony; signs, tokens and penalties included. Joseph, Hyrum, Brigham, and others, were Masons. Many Cult experts consider the Masonic religion to be a Satanic Cult. 

Six weeks after Joseph Smith and other Mormons were expelled from the Masonic order, Joseph Smith introduced the Masonic ceremony as the temple ceremony "received as a revelation from God." When Dr. Reed Durham, director of LDS Institute of Religion, made his discovery of this in 1974, and gave his speech on the subject of the Mormon-Mason connection in front of the Utah History Association on April 20, 1974, he was highly criticized for making this matter public. He also showed the Jupiter talisman and explained that Joseph had had it from 1826 (the same year he was convicted on money-digging charges and being a believer in magic), and that Joseph had this Jupiter talisman on him at the time of his death.

Brigham Young had claimed that God Himself had revealed this doctrine to him. Brigham also had claimed that his sermons were "as good as scripture" (J. of D., vol. 13, p. 166).

See more about the "doorway to satanism", known as Masonry here

Latter Day Saints (LDS) Lies about Jesus in trying to make Polygamy (many wives) acceptable:

Joseph Fielding Smith, who was the president of the LDS Church in 1970's, said, in an answer to a question: "Was Jesus married?" - "Yes, but do not throw pearls to the swine!" We can clearly see that the LDS church still mistakenly believes that Jesus was married, even a polygamist, but doesn't want to "throw pearls to the swine" or to reveal this to non-Mormons. 

The leaders of the LDS Church have also taught that their Jesus was married and had children, and that he was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book, The Seer, page 172, says:

"...the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist...the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approved the plurality of Wives under Christian dispensation.

Joseph Smith taught that a man who took ten wives with him to heaven had ten times as much chance of becoming God of his own planet than a man who took only one wife. It is said that Joseph’s own adventure with plural marriage began with Fannie Alger. Oliver Cowdery, who at one time was second in command of the Mormon Church, called Joseph’s relation with Fannie Alger, at that time about eighteen, “a dirty, nasty, filthy affair.”

The government of the Mormon Church is a monarchical style of administration.  The head of the church, the “President,” is assisted by apostles and other General Authorities.  The President  makes all appointments and decisions of the church. The President of the church is not elected by church members, but assumes power strictly by seniority (as an apostle) as the oldest apostle.

Exactly like Muhammad of Islam, Joseph Smith had a knack for coming up with "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that benefited himself:

Emma Hale Smith

Evidence that Joseph Smith was probably nothing other than an uninspired man and a charlatan can be found in the way he (like Muhammad of Islam) received "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that suited his own personal life.  Joseph Smith was an advocate of plural marriage.  Below is a timely and convenient "revelation" which Joseph Smith said he miraculously received from God admonishing his own wife Emma Smith who was against polygamy:

Reference for the below:  "Doctrine and Covenants, 1981, 132:51-56"

"Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him. And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against Me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice. 

Early LDS President, Brigham Young Taught that Adam is God:

He said; "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize the world. He is Michael, the Arc-angel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50-51.

in the Millenial Star, vol. 17, page 195, we read:

"... every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that he (Adam) is God of the whole earth. Then will the words of the prophet Brigham Young, WHEN SPEAKING OF ADAM, be fully realized - 'HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO.'"

Further in the Millenial Star, vol. 16, page 530, we read the counsel by James A. Little: "I believe in the principal of obedience; and if I am told that Adam is our Father and our God, I just believe it." The records show that there were only two leaders in the Church who had difficulty with this doctrine, namely apostles Orson Pratt and Amasa Lyman. In one of Brigham's sermons, printed in the "Deseret News," June 14, 1873, Brigham declared:

"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and WHICH GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM IS OUR FATHER AND GOD... Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him. He brought one of his wives with him. Who is he? He is Michael... He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren brought it into existence."
 

They worship a different God and a different Jesus

In the (Mormon) Temple ceremony, Michael, the Archangel, is one of the creators of the world and he then "becomes" Adam. According to Mormonism, "GODS" created the world, (see Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4 and 5), Adam being one of them, one of three gods. It is clearly implied that he is God. There are more writings and documented evidence to this fact.
Brigham has emphasized that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost, as he falsely says the Bible says. This teaching shows that Jesus of the LDS Church is not "Emmanuel," "God with us;" God, who, according to the Bible (Matt. 1:23), became a man for us, to be our Redeemer. Jesus of the LDS Church is a created being, who also had to be redeemed...

This "Gods created the world" concept by Mormonism is a corruption of Genesis 1:26 which to mainline Christian Churches is taken to be the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  Not Adam!
 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  Genesis 1:26

Mormons think that Jesus's Atonement is not Sufficient:
Young and later Mormon apostles and presidents taught that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to cover all sins. However, by having their blood spilled on the ground, the guilty could make atonement for their own sins and obtain a better salvation at the resurrection. What sort of sins did Young and others consider beyond the reach of Christ’s forgiveness? Various Mormon documents mention murder, adultery, whoredom, stealing, lying, marrying or having sexual intercourse with a Negro, and apostasy.

Most information for the above article is taken from ex-Mormon's words and in-depth study..... 

Mormons are Masters of the double-speak - and like Muhammad of Islam, the timely "Revelation"....

Although the Mormon leadership, through a "revelation" in 1978, did allow black males to be ordained, it has not changed passages in its scripture teaching that "a skin of blackness" is a curse from God.  The double-speak about "a skin of blackness" is such as Mr. Ostling writes in "Mormon America" that the references pertain to American Indians, rather than African-Americans. 

Muhammad's made up Qur'an says this and more about blacks:  Muslims are told that Africans “annoy the Prophet” (Ishaq 243), have hearts “grosser than a donkey” (Surah 9:61) Read more at "Black Muslims" here
 

Also Read: "An Ex-Mormon Makes a Lot of Sense...."

Two obstacles must be overcome in understanding Mormon doctrine. The first is historical. Because of changes brought about through ongoing revelation, Mormon doctrine is inconsistent and even self-contradictory. The 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon initially remained doctrinally close to orthodoxy. It declared God to be one, to be spirit, and to be unchangeable in his decrees. Christ was presented as a divine being who is one with the Father. It declared polygamy abominable and commended monogamy as the rule for marriage. Salvation was said to consist of repentance, baptism, remission of sins, and the reception of the Spirit. The unsaved were thought to have no second chance for salvation after death. Yet within a few years, Joseph Smith changed his mind about each of these doctrines. Subsequent Mormon seers and revelators have made additional changes.

The Planet Kolob....

The second obstacle in understanding Mormonism is language. Mormons radically redefine traditional Christian terminology to fit their altered doctrine. It is extremely important to bear this in mind when talking with a Mormon. The God of Mormonism is not the God of Christianity, but a finite, resurrected man with a physical body who lives on the planet Kolob. The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Christianity, but the literal spiritual and physical son of God. Mormons call Christ their elder brother believing that, like themselves, his spirit was begotten celestially by God through intercourse with a heavenly mother. They believe Christ’s incarnation resulted from God having sexual intercourse with Mary.

"And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;  And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that (the earth) upon which thou standest."  Pearl of Great Price 3:2-3

When Mormons speak of being born again, they do not mean spiritual regeneration but baptism into the Mormon church. Salvation is not redemption from sin or spiritual death but the overcoming of physical death. According to Mormon theology, the atonement wrought by Christ merely reversed the penalty of physical death caused by Adam’s fall. Salvation, in the form of resurrection and immortality, is thereby guaranteed for all.

 

Jesus told us "God is Spirit"
Mormons contradict Jesus and tell us God is "flesh & bones"
 

President Joseph Fielding Smith (10th President of the LDS Church) made the following statement:
 

“We accept these three personages as the supreme governing council in the heavens. The Father and the Son have tabernacles of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. We worship the Father in the name of the son who is the Mediator between God and man, and his is the only name given whereby man can be saved. We accept Jesus as the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh, although we are all his offspring in the spirit, and therefore his children.”

 

[Elsie]

Nothing is more fruitless than expecting consistency from a member of the LDS.

Pete, it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.

[Elsie]

You spelled HARDLY wrong!

Mrs. Elsie

[Elsie]

Platter Puss...

[Elsie]

 

 

 

Welcome folks, to our daily session of Theological discussions about Mormonism: Is it Christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Feel free to enter the talks at any time.

 

If you get dizzy, feel free to leave at any point.

 

All points are valid;

and, all points will be discussed.

 

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd_ucRdLLf4&NR=1

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[ejonesie22]

That is why God gave us a mind as well as a heart to work with when it comes to knowing the truth.

[Tennessee Nana]

“the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which disincorporated the LDS Church because of its practice of polygamy.”

Oh noez...

the “restored” needed “restoring”

[Tennessee Nana]

LOL

Mrs Elsie would know

:)

[Utah Binger]

Snow Geese Are Better

[SZonian]

And you know that how?

Were you there when he said, “In my opinion...”?

Or, were you there when he said, “Listen closely, this is revelation...”?

How do you know Resty?

[Graybeard58]

I am Baptist. I joined a Masonic Lodge over 30 years ago. I just wish that people would get off of calling or thinking of Masonry as being a religion, it is not, it is a fraternal organization.

We have Jewish people in our lodge and Catholics and every Protestant denomination you care to name.

When I was being interviewed to be accepted, I was asked if I believed in God, when I said yes, I was told that a “no” answer would have kept me from joining.

I went through the symbolic initiation rites just as Joe Smith did but it never occurred to me to make a religion out of them.

[SZonian]

"When you see the twisting, lies and deceptive tactics ask yourself..."

Prove it. You keep making accusations and then run off like a scared child who won't answer the "mail". A hit and run poster who hides behind their firewall of anonymity.

Show the "lies and deceptive tactics...". Show us where they are, and then, most importantly, offer the rebuttal material that PROVES it.

Your constant accusations of FReepers being liars and deceivers is repugnant, a very liberal tactic.

Alinsky much?

[svcw]

Outstanding Clarification of Doctrines

(of LDS)

[Tennessee Nana]

Stop trying to assign and distort or tell the LDS what they believe attend to your own hosehold!
___________________________________________________

SOOOOOOOOOOO Resty...

According to you , this is just the opinion of Briggy Young...

“If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph”
—Brigham Young
—JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

Second President Brigham Young once remarked,
“I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, that this is the Gospel of salvation, and if you do not believe it you will be damned, every one of you”
(Journal of Discourses 4:298, March 29, 1857).

On October 9, 1859, Young said,
“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent”
(Journal of Discourses 7:289).

“He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be.”
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god...”
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]”
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.”
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

...to get by Joseph Smith...

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

—Brigham Young
—JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Graybeard58]

what is this nonsense? I’ve never heard anyone, mormon or not, ever claim that adam is god.

Then you probably never heard that God came down to earth as a human and had sexual intercourse with Mary either.

[Tennessee Nana]

What ever happened to “love thy neighbor?”
___________________________________________

Will the Mormons put on their bright yellow T-shirts and go help their Gentile neighborss in flooded Tennessee ???

If not, why not? Why does a revelation take so long these days?

[svcw]

Revelation takes so long because when you have to have twelve guys come to a consensus on what a god wants, really what do you expect. Consensus the absence of leadership.

[Godzilla]

Revelation takes so long because when you have to have twelve guys come to a consensus on what a god wants, really what do you expect. Consensus the absence of leadership.

Sure didn't slow smith down when it came to polygamy.

[SZonian]

http://www.mormontimes.com/people_news/people_church/?id=14768

[Tennessee Nana]

twelve guys = thirteen different opinions

[svcw]

Yea, it sure is interesting. We have direct quotes from LDS leaders but are told they don’t count because they are just opinions and Biblical Scripture does not count because the leaders we have just been told do not count because it is just opinions telling us the Bible wasn’t translated correctly.
So the bottom line according to LDS appears to be “it is true if I say its true but I can change my mind at any moment and that is true also but what I said before doesn’t matter, it only matters what I say now”.