Are Mormons Christian? Inquiry into the Church of Latter Day Saints, a peculiarly American Religion

Bible Probe ^

[delacoert]

They teach/have taught: Jesus is not Emmanuel, Adam is God, and Salvation is by Works

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims that the name of the Church was given to Joseph Smith by revelation. However, when Smith first organized the Church in 1830, it was called the "Church of Christ," then four years later the name was changed to the "Church of Latter-day Saints," then in 1838, it was changed again, this time to the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"..

Regardless that Jesus told us "God is Spirit", Mormons reject the unified Trinity and teach that God has a body of flesh and blood. 
 

Most Mormons are good, God fearing people who believe in Christ as the Savior, the Redeemer, the Son of God, the Creator of the earth, and the only source of salvation.  Who can doubt their love for God after sitting through a wonderful Christmas celebration by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?  What can one make of this?  Yet many of their doctrines are heretical to most Christians.   Most Mormons are good, God-fearing people.  But like Islam, Scientology, and Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism rejects the Gospel of Jesus -- and therefore these push their members away from the true road to salvation. Jews also reject this.  But as Paul says--Jews have been supernaturally blinded.  Most important, however, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is their personal Savior.

Some say Mormons present a "gendered, married and procreating god" with "a body of flesh and bones."  This despite Jesus telling us God is Spirit. 

Mormons reject the Triune God. 
The Jesus of Mormonism is not co-eternal with the Father and of one substance with the Father, which most Christians believe.

The three persons of the Godhead are, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19)

Mormonism says: Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, were spirit brothers and sons of God before the spirit of Jesus was given a body by Mary in Bethlehem. The Mormon "Book of Moses" presents Satan and Jesus as contending for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. [See Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:1-4.]

Mormonism also teaches that Jesus was the physical son of God the Father and Mary, and that there is nothing in His life more than what is attainable by anyone else.
 

However, while Mormonism is based on a biblical belief in Jesus as the Christ, the teachings of Mormonism concerning God and Man (expounded first circa 1840 near the end of Smith's life) extend far beyond the biblical narrative in ways rejected by most traditional Christian churches.  Mormons believe that God the Father is completely separate from Jesus Christ; that God the Father is the father of us all, and of his son, Jesus Christ, and of all the evil spirits, including Satan. Mormons have a creed similar to New Agers.  The LDS did once teach that "We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."  In Joseph Smith's own words we can become like God  (''what God is").  However, they have apparently changed this teaching in recent years. They now teach: "We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."

 

• "Mormons won't tell you that all their so-called scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and even their official 'Mormon Doctrine' statements contradict each other…"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that the reason the Book of Mormon has no maps is because there is not one scrap of archaeological evidence to support it!"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that their prophet Joseph Smith was an ex-Mason who was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism."
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that that "Mormons won't tell you that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world". This is clearly a practice forbidden by God". See Deuteronomy 18:10-12
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that they think "familiar spirits" are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a "familiar spirit".
  
  Leviticus 19:31 says: Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
  
  Leviticus 20:6
  And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that those Mormons who have been through their temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil". This "evil" includes non-Mormons like you and me".
   
• "Mormons won't tell about their secret temple rites at all. If they did, you would spot them as non-Christians immediately."
  
   

See more things "Mormons won't tell you: here
 

 Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan"

Mormon beliefs are considered to be so far outside the beliefs of most Christians that the Roman Catholic Church, Presbyterians and the United Methodist Church all declared that Mormon converts must be re-baptized, a setback to the Mormon Church's effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.  The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are "not the baptism that Christ instituted."  The ruling was a departure from the Catholic Church's usual practice of recognizing the baptisms of converts from most other churches. The Vatican held that the Mormon view of the nature of God was too different from Catholicism's.  Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan".

Statue of Moroni

Jesus told us, there would only be one more revelation of truth that would come after Him. John 14:17, 16:7 & 13 tell us that Jesus said a "Spirit of Truth" (not a man - a Spirit), the Comforter would come after He Himself departed. This Comforter was to guide us "into all truth". So there would then be no truth remaining which would be sealed or hidden. This was Jesus’ way of saying there would be only one more revelation of Truth after him. We know, that this was the Comforter who descended on the apostles gathered together on Pentecost. There have been no others.

According to Mormon tradition, the angel Moroni is the heavenly messenger who first visited Joseph Smith on the night of September 21-22, 1823. Adherents of Latter-day Saint theology believe that Moroni is a prophet who lived in North America in the late 4th century. In 1827, Moroni supposedly delivered golden plates to Joseph Smith, which are the record of Moroni's people -- ancient Americans known as Nephites and Lamanites.  The golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon and magic translation stones were supposedly buried beneath a hill in Palmyra, New York. Since Joseph Smith was the only witness to the appearance of Moroni, and only eight others (all converts rather than disinterested witnesses) claim to have seen the golden plates--there is little to corroborate Smith's story.  Most of these so-called witnesses later left the Mormon Church. Smith says that these valuable plates were lost.   

In the Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, page 164, Brigham Young stated:

"...witnesses of the Book of Mormon who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel."

A worrisome note smacking of what Jesus was against is that the foundation of the practice of the Mormon church is priesthood authority. Another of Joseph Smiths doctrines was polygamy, a practice that Smith denied publicly but practiced secretly. That doctrine was the obvious downfall of Joseph Smith; he was killed during a shot out in 1844, as a result of the polygamy controversy.

The Book of Mormon shows every indication of being written by a rather uneducated man, who plagiarized most of it from the King James version of the Bible.  Amazing little knowledge of Judaism and 4th-century Judea is noted in the Book of Mormon. This Book of Mormon shares a common denominator with another such contrived book.  Both the Muslim Qu'ran and the Book of Mormon exhibit gross chronological errors.
 

In Galatians 1:6-9 Paul says;

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than ye have received, let him be accursed."

Would this mean that Mormons and Masonic Worshipful Masters and other Masonic instructors are under the curse of God?  Don't both of these preach the contrary doctrine that "salvation is by works" - as if they can earn credit points towards earning a celestial reward? This is exactly the wrong reasons for charity work and helping your fellow man/women. Doing it only because of your love for Jesus and obedience to his loving message to "love one another" is the correct motivation - knowing that you are only saved by His grace. Isn't this new Mormon 19th century Doctrine in violation of what Paul speaks of and warns about above?  

Islam and Mormonism have similar roots/leaders.  Both have prophets who made no prophecies, nor showed any sort of divinity, or even divine inspiration.  History has shown that both were opportunists and murdered up to the end, also.  Both taught salvation by works.

Joseph Smith, the opportunist and ex-Mason

Smith went out blazing his gun away - first killing two people
 

Jesus never said a true prophet would appear in the last days. Rather, He said false prophets would arise who would deceive, if possible, the very elect.

 

Why would Joseph Smith pull off the Mormon charade? Let's listen to what another opportunist/cult leader wrote:

Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard declared in the late 1940s: “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion.”

While present-day Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith, there seems to be evidence that Smith wanted to elevate himself almost to the same level as Jesus Christ.

Josiah Quincy related that when he visited Joseph Smith in 1844, "the prophet put this inquiry: 'Is not here one greater than Solomon, who built a Temple with the treasures of his father David and with the assistance of Huram [sic], King of Tyre? Joseph Smith has built his Temple with no one to aid him in the work.' " (Figures of the Past, as cited in Among the Mormons, p. 138)

    The History of the Church contains some statements which seem to show that Joseph Smith felt he was almost equal with God:

 "God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it." (vol. 6, pp.319-320)

 

Mormons want you to believe their "prophet", Joseph Smith was martyred:

In 1838, when Oliver Cowdery accused Joseph Smith of adulterous affairs, Joseph had Oliver excommunicated. The controversy over polygamy was the underlying reason for the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. William Law's wife had confessed that she had an affair with Joseph. William Law left the Church and started a publication called "Nauvoo Expositor." One issue was published and the second one was going to print when Joseph found out that William Law was going to print his wife's confession in that issue. Joseph had the press destroyed and the building burned. That caused his arrest and, consequently, his death.

Writing about Joseph Smith, the Mormon church "Prophet" and founder --John Taylor, third president of the Church of Latter Day Saints wrote in the "Gospel Kingdom," page 360:

"Joseph opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times... afterwards (I) understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."

The same account is also in the History of the Church, vol. 6, p. XLI and pages 617-618. 

It was too bad that Joseph Smith was thus killed, but he did not die like a martyr who went "as a lamb to the slaughter" as is claimed by the LDS Church. HE DIED IN A GUNFIGHT, and killed two people before he was shot. Joseph acted as a Mason at the time of his death. John Taylor tells also that Joseph went to the window and made a Masonic distress sign after his gun was empty, hoping that Masons, if there were any among this mob, would rescue him, according to the Masonic oath "to defend one another, right or wrong."

How Joseph Smith died - in a blazing gunfight:

After a brief struggle--during which Joseph Smith, who had armed himself with a smuggled pepperbox revolver, reached around the doorjamb and fired all six chambers--Hyrum fired through the door and was struck in the face by a mobber's bullet. He was hit by three more shots and died. Joseph leaped to the window, where he became an excellent target for those outside as well as the intruders on the stairway. Two shots from the doorway struck him in the back; a third, fired from the ground outside, penetrated his chest. "O Lord. My God!" he screamed, and plunged to earth.

The Mormon Temple Ceremony compares quite exactly with the Masonic Ceremony; signs, tokens and penalties included. Joseph, Hyrum, Brigham, and others, were Masons. Many Cult experts consider the Masonic religion to be a Satanic Cult. 

Six weeks after Joseph Smith and other Mormons were expelled from the Masonic order, Joseph Smith introduced the Masonic ceremony as the temple ceremony "received as a revelation from God." When Dr. Reed Durham, director of LDS Institute of Religion, made his discovery of this in 1974, and gave his speech on the subject of the Mormon-Mason connection in front of the Utah History Association on April 20, 1974, he was highly criticized for making this matter public. He also showed the Jupiter talisman and explained that Joseph had had it from 1826 (the same year he was convicted on money-digging charges and being a believer in magic), and that Joseph had this Jupiter talisman on him at the time of his death.

Brigham Young had claimed that God Himself had revealed this doctrine to him. Brigham also had claimed that his sermons were "as good as scripture" (J. of D., vol. 13, p. 166).

See more about the "doorway to satanism", known as Masonry here

Latter Day Saints (LDS) Lies about Jesus in trying to make Polygamy (many wives) acceptable:

Joseph Fielding Smith, who was the president of the LDS Church in 1970's, said, in an answer to a question: "Was Jesus married?" - "Yes, but do not throw pearls to the swine!" We can clearly see that the LDS church still mistakenly believes that Jesus was married, even a polygamist, but doesn't want to "throw pearls to the swine" or to reveal this to non-Mormons. 

The leaders of the LDS Church have also taught that their Jesus was married and had children, and that he was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book, The Seer, page 172, says:

"...the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist...the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approved the plurality of Wives under Christian dispensation.

Joseph Smith taught that a man who took ten wives with him to heaven had ten times as much chance of becoming God of his own planet than a man who took only one wife. It is said that Joseph’s own adventure with plural marriage began with Fannie Alger. Oliver Cowdery, who at one time was second in command of the Mormon Church, called Joseph’s relation with Fannie Alger, at that time about eighteen, “a dirty, nasty, filthy affair.”

The government of the Mormon Church is a monarchical style of administration.  The head of the church, the “President,” is assisted by apostles and other General Authorities.  The President  makes all appointments and decisions of the church. The President of the church is not elected by church members, but assumes power strictly by seniority (as an apostle) as the oldest apostle.

Exactly like Muhammad of Islam, Joseph Smith had a knack for coming up with "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that benefited himself:

Emma Hale Smith

Evidence that Joseph Smith was probably nothing other than an uninspired man and a charlatan can be found in the way he (like Muhammad of Islam) received "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that suited his own personal life.  Joseph Smith was an advocate of plural marriage.  Below is a timely and convenient "revelation" which Joseph Smith said he miraculously received from God admonishing his own wife Emma Smith who was against polygamy:

Reference for the below:  "Doctrine and Covenants, 1981, 132:51-56"

"Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him. And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against Me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice. 

Early LDS President, Brigham Young Taught that Adam is God:

He said; "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize the world. He is Michael, the Arc-angel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50-51.

in the Millenial Star, vol. 17, page 195, we read:

"... every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that he (Adam) is God of the whole earth. Then will the words of the prophet Brigham Young, WHEN SPEAKING OF ADAM, be fully realized - 'HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO.'"

Further in the Millenial Star, vol. 16, page 530, we read the counsel by James A. Little: "I believe in the principal of obedience; and if I am told that Adam is our Father and our God, I just believe it." The records show that there were only two leaders in the Church who had difficulty with this doctrine, namely apostles Orson Pratt and Amasa Lyman. In one of Brigham's sermons, printed in the "Deseret News," June 14, 1873, Brigham declared:

"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and WHICH GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM IS OUR FATHER AND GOD... Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him. He brought one of his wives with him. Who is he? He is Michael... He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren brought it into existence."
 

They worship a different God and a different Jesus

In the (Mormon) Temple ceremony, Michael, the Archangel, is one of the creators of the world and he then "becomes" Adam. According to Mormonism, "GODS" created the world, (see Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4 and 5), Adam being one of them, one of three gods. It is clearly implied that he is God. There are more writings and documented evidence to this fact.
Brigham has emphasized that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost, as he falsely says the Bible says. This teaching shows that Jesus of the LDS Church is not "Emmanuel," "God with us;" God, who, according to the Bible (Matt. 1:23), became a man for us, to be our Redeemer. Jesus of the LDS Church is a created being, who also had to be redeemed...

This "Gods created the world" concept by Mormonism is a corruption of Genesis 1:26 which to mainline Christian Churches is taken to be the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  Not Adam!
 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  Genesis 1:26

Mormons think that Jesus's Atonement is not Sufficient:
Young and later Mormon apostles and presidents taught that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to cover all sins. However, by having their blood spilled on the ground, the guilty could make atonement for their own sins and obtain a better salvation at the resurrection. What sort of sins did Young and others consider beyond the reach of Christ’s forgiveness? Various Mormon documents mention murder, adultery, whoredom, stealing, lying, marrying or having sexual intercourse with a Negro, and apostasy.

Most information for the above article is taken from ex-Mormon's words and in-depth study..... 

Mormons are Masters of the double-speak - and like Muhammad of Islam, the timely "Revelation"....

Although the Mormon leadership, through a "revelation" in 1978, did allow black males to be ordained, it has not changed passages in its scripture teaching that "a skin of blackness" is a curse from God.  The double-speak about "a skin of blackness" is such as Mr. Ostling writes in "Mormon America" that the references pertain to American Indians, rather than African-Americans. 

Muhammad's made up Qur'an says this and more about blacks:  Muslims are told that Africans “annoy the Prophet” (Ishaq 243), have hearts “grosser than a donkey” (Surah 9:61) Read more at "Black Muslims" here
 

Also Read: "An Ex-Mormon Makes a Lot of Sense...."

Two obstacles must be overcome in understanding Mormon doctrine. The first is historical. Because of changes brought about through ongoing revelation, Mormon doctrine is inconsistent and even self-contradictory. The 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon initially remained doctrinally close to orthodoxy. It declared God to be one, to be spirit, and to be unchangeable in his decrees. Christ was presented as a divine being who is one with the Father. It declared polygamy abominable and commended monogamy as the rule for marriage. Salvation was said to consist of repentance, baptism, remission of sins, and the reception of the Spirit. The unsaved were thought to have no second chance for salvation after death. Yet within a few years, Joseph Smith changed his mind about each of these doctrines. Subsequent Mormon seers and revelators have made additional changes.

The Planet Kolob....

The second obstacle in understanding Mormonism is language. Mormons radically redefine traditional Christian terminology to fit their altered doctrine. It is extremely important to bear this in mind when talking with a Mormon. The God of Mormonism is not the God of Christianity, but a finite, resurrected man with a physical body who lives on the planet Kolob. The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Christianity, but the literal spiritual and physical son of God. Mormons call Christ their elder brother believing that, like themselves, his spirit was begotten celestially by God through intercourse with a heavenly mother. They believe Christ’s incarnation resulted from God having sexual intercourse with Mary.

"And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;  And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that (the earth) upon which thou standest."  Pearl of Great Price 3:2-3

When Mormons speak of being born again, they do not mean spiritual regeneration but baptism into the Mormon church. Salvation is not redemption from sin or spiritual death but the overcoming of physical death. According to Mormon theology, the atonement wrought by Christ merely reversed the penalty of physical death caused by Adam’s fall. Salvation, in the form of resurrection and immortality, is thereby guaranteed for all.

 

Jesus told us "God is Spirit"
Mormons contradict Jesus and tell us God is "flesh & bones"
 

President Joseph Fielding Smith (10th President of the LDS Church) made the following statement:
 

“We accept these three personages as the supreme governing council in the heavens. The Father and the Son have tabernacles of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. We worship the Father in the name of the son who is the Mediator between God and man, and his is the only name given whereby man can be saved. We accept Jesus as the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh, although we are all his offspring in the spirit, and therefore his children.”

 

[Colofornian]

Who gets to decide whose a Christian? The Jesus police! [Mr. Right Now]

Why do at least some of you posters seemingly discriminate against a certain type of Mormon? Perhaps I just missed all your protests on behalf of fundamentalist Mormons, but I need to ask you if you have similarly gone to bat for them?

The Lds "prophet," Gordon B. Hinckley was interviewed by Larry King on CNN on September 8, 1998:

KING: But when the word [polygamy] is mentioned, when you hear the word, you think Mormon, right?

HINCKLEY: You do it mistakenly. They have no connection to us whatsoever. They don't belong to the church. There are actually no Mormon fundamentalists.

So here the mainstream Mormons were defining fundamentalist Mormons out of existence, saying, "Only we get to define who is 'Mormon'."

So if you take umbrage here, what about those who claim they have a monopoly on the word "Mormon?" OK for Lds to draw boundaries, but nobody else? (Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?)

If there's no boundaries, why, let's all just join the new religion of Ecumenicalism. Here, I'm your new ecumenical guru. Copy down my "lecture" notes for you: A fundamentalist Mormon-is-a-Mormon-is-a-Christian-is-a-Jonestownite-is-a-Branch-Davidian-is-a-Heavens-Gate-ian-is-a-Urantia believer-is a Church Universal & Triumphant-is-a-Wicca-Witch-is-Voodoo practioner-is-a-New-Ager-is-a-whirling dervish-is-a-Hindu-is-a-Sikh-is-a-Muslim!) (Whew!!)

[And you may have thought religious pantheism was dead!)

[restornu]

Nor are you stupid women

When one follows how man has grown in his understanding his attitude should change hopefully grow in the ways of the Lord as he is weaned from the ways of the world mindset!

As I look at the LDS as they are today after they rid themselves of the puritan baggage their hearts are softer, loving patient towards their fellowman even those antagonized them

[Colofornian]

Some of those are teaching some of those are opinions to lump them altogather is misleading.

So if a contemporary Mormon "apostle" makes a ccomment similar to 19th century Mormon apostle Orson Pratt, ancestor of Mitt Romney, saying...
...“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness.”
...that somehow "makes it all better" for Momma Resty to put the bandaid on this statement of "this was 'only' an 'opinion' by one of our high-ranking 'apostles'?"

You know if this opinion was so God-awful in the minds of Mormon leaders, why haven't they either rescinded it or critiqued it or something similar?

Bottom line, Resty: When Mormon leaders make statements, even if they are solo opinions, and if fellow Mormons leaders don't address it and actually specifically counter that statement, then the statement stands as representative of the Mormon church. You can't on the one hand be a church that says, "Give a testimony" and then on the other hand claim some of those "testimonies" have been rejected "behind the scenes."

Orson Pratt gave his "testimony" in his book, The Seer, whether you like it or not, and who you are you to tell Mitt Romney's ancestor that his "testimony" about Protestants and Catholics didn't match your brand new, made-up standards and therefore it needs to be boxed away?

[Godzilla]

It does not surprised me that you are having a hard time or unable to receive!

LOL, oh contrair resty, I understand quite well. No longer believe in continuing revelation? Do living prophets still take precedence over canonized scripture?

Or do you take the tack that the words will conform to what has already been revealed. If that is the case, then clearly mormonism is invalid because its teachings are in direct opposition to what the Bible reveals.

According to Michael Ash at FAIR, a third way is when the hearer/reader is ‘moved by the Holy Ghost' that the material becomes "doctrine". Really now Resty, how can you say otherwise? Did the Holy Ghost 'decieve' all those mormons into believeing FALSE DOCTRINES upon hearing the prophets at General Conferences - and for that matter, why the big deal about GC - its just their opinions.

Really now resty, I don't have problems receiving as long as lsd can figure out what exactly they are suppose to be giving.

[Colofornian]

Where's your consistency in these two remarks, KILLERmedic?

It wouldn’t matter what religion you espoused someone here would be offended by your personal beliefs and flame it openly.

and

...crusade against The LDS People. personal attacks, condescending attitudes, and other forms of derision...

If you came on this thread to initially rally FReepers that they shouldn't be so easily offended by personal beliefs, then why did you then post a later comment highlighting that you were so offended by the personal beliefs of some FReepers that you labeled them crusaders, attackers, etc.???

If people shouldn't be offended by personal beliefs, then why are you seemingly offended by personal beliefs? (Oh, it's OK for your personal Mormon beliefs to be provocative in the public square, but if anybody else dares to share their personal beliefs in the public square, look out...you take on both their content and add personal attacks about their supposed attitudes...minus any evidence, of course...why just be a generic attacker.)

[restornu]

Stop trying to assign and distort or tell the LDS what they believe attend to your own hosehold!

[Colofornian]

Stop trying to assign and distort or tell the LDS what they believe attend to your own hosehold!

Stop trying to tell Lds apostle Orson Pratt & other deceased Lds general authorities that their utterances were "just your opinions..." You have no Lds priesthood authority to do so... (however, Resty, if you return to our Presbyterian roots, you would be part of the priesthood of all believers!)

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Oh yes the MORRISITE MASSACRE

What happened there ???***

Mormons traveled to Utah, became disinchanted with B Young, segregated themselves from the Utah mormons and elected themselves a new “prophet” Joseph Morris.

The Mormon milia surrounded the Morrisites, called for their surrender, when the Morrisites gathered to discuss surrender the Mormon militia opened fire with cannon killing several women in the Morrisite assembly. Then the militia charged in on horseback with guns blazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrisite_War

[Godzilla]

Stop trying to assign and distort or tell the LDS what they believe attend to your own hosehold!

Doing more hosing resty? Really now. A polygamous individual in 1900 would be excommunicated for following a doctrine that he would have been excommunicated for rejecting in the late 1800s. Young TAUGHT Adam-God (stating that his very words were to be considered scripture), it was published in official church publications AND even included it in the endowment ceremony. So if the Living prophet and seer is teaching wrong DOCTRINE, how can they be trusted about anything else resty? Would you follow your leaders if they decide that same sex marriage is now permitted? I mean, after all, your prophets and seers have been wrong in the past.

BTW, I cited mormons in my last post - they are telling me what THEY believe - guess that it is just more personal opinion. Just like you are giving YOUR personal opinions?

[Colofornian]

This anti-Mormon stuff is not only tiring, but patently incorrect and reeks of anti-Christian behavior. [Paulus Invictus]

And you're such as all-knowing awesome authority that we're just to take you at your word that this article is 'patently incorrect'? Wow! Such incredible sweeping powers of persuasion or position!

I'm a Lutheran married to a Catholic, so I have no dog in this fight. Having said that, why are we going after the Mormons who usually vote very conservatively? [2ndDivisionVet]

I don't understand the need for this post in a blatant attempt to ridicule the natural allies of what most folks on FR are all about. [sefarkas]

If MormonISM is our ally, have you ever asked Mormons why they claim...
...they're the "only true & living church on the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30)...
...in their Book of Mormon that all other churches fall under the umbrella of Satan (1 Nephi 14:9-10)?
...in Smith's first vision that every single creed of the Christian sects didn't honor God and was an "abomination" to the Mormon god? (How is that not "bashing" every Christian creed out there -- including all of your Lutheran Christian creeds, 2ndDivisionVet?)
...in Smith's first vision that all Christian professors are "corrupt." (How is that not bashing all Christian professors of their faith?)
...in their doctrine all Christian denominations are "apostate" (How is that not bashing all Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox and each member therein?)

What kind of "allies" spread it around the world that God considers us all to be apostates, all to be corrupt, all to be heart-drifters, all to be a false and dead church bodies, all to be Satan's church, and to have 100 putrid creeds in God's eyes? That's outright slander!

You posters need to be "educated" in Mormonism. Google just these references:
Doctrine & Covenants 1:30
1 Nephi 14:9-10
Joseph Smith - History vv. 18-20 (in Pearl of Great Price)
the phrase "universal apostasy" with the word "LDS"

[Tennessee Nana]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The Morrisite4s were unarmed < I suppose ???

The mormons seem to have a history of “bravely” going up against unarmed “foes”

Thats what happened at the Mountain Meadows Massacre too...

140 UNARMED MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN. and BABIES...

Murdered in cold blood by the mormons because they were non-mormons and becaus the mormons wanted to steal their wagons, money, cattle, horses,

Even the clothes off their dead bodies which were left to rot for two years unburied on the open praire until the US Army came and buried them...

Then Briggy Young torn down the monument over their grave...

There was a sign that said “Vengence is Mine. I will repay” (Hebrews 10:30)

Briggy Young torn that down too and said “No, vengence is mine...and I took some..”

Ah yes...So neighborly...

“the public behavior and publicly demonstrated values of the Mormon.”

[Utah Binger]

Flipping idiots ping.

[svcw]

LDS delusion ping

[Elsie]

I'm a Lutheran married to a Catholic, so I have no dog in this fight. Having said that, why are we going after the Mormons who usually vote very conservatively?

Did you read the TITLE?

A Lutheran and a Catholic OUGHT to be able to answer the QUESTION instead of changing the SUBJECT to CONSERVATISM.

[Elsie]

I am Protestant, my wife is Catholic, and whatever these folks do on their Sabbath is up to them.

A Protestant and a Catholic should be WORRIED about MORMON souls!

Do you not feel ANY need to combat HERESY?

[Elsie]

What ever happened to “love thy neighbor?”

What the HELL ever happened to REBUKE with all authority?

[Tennessee Nana]

A Lutheran and a Catholic OUGHT to be able to answer the QUESTION instead of changing the SUBJECT to CONSERVATISM.
________________________________

Why do they do that ???

Williard mitt Romney is a mormon and a liberal...

He’s voted very liberal in the past..

Harry Reid ??? A mormon and a liberal...

Rocky Anderson ???

But we wont go there...

A mormon and a liberal...

[Elsie]

This anti-Mormon stuff is not only tiring, but patently incorrect and reeks of anti-Christian behavior.

Here is some BEHAVIOR for you!

---

 

Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

 

 

 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

 

 

Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

 

 

Acts 13:1

  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.

 

 

 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

 

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

 

. What ever happened to “love thy neighbor?”

 

 

INDEED!!!

 

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?

 [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.

When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?

[Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73);

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199);

"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24);

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed:

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44),

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated:

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266).

"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:

"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265);

"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132);

"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269);

"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated:

"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

 

[Elsie]

I am a Christian and I have some Mormon friends and I find them to be very good people.

I am a Christian and I have some Atheist friends and I find them to be very good people.

I am a Christian and I have some Muslim friends and I find them to be very good people.

I am a Christian and I have some Buddhist friends and I find them to be very good people.

I am a Christian and I have some Agnostic friends and I find them to be very good people.

I am a Christian and I have some Wiccan friends and I find them to be very good people.

---

They work hard to provide to their families and they don’t bother others so I don’t have any issues with them.

A 'christian' and you have NO problems with MORMONism?

AMAZING!