Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]

Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

[Quix]

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. 10 May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today the food we need,[a] 12 and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us. 13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b] but rescue us from the evil one.[c] --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name. 10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us this day our daily bread. 12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors. 13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. 14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what's best— as above, so below. Keep us alive with three square meals. Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others. Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil. You're in charge! You can do anything you want! You're ablaze in beauty! Yes. Yes. Yes. 14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part. 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. --THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, Mother of Perpetual Help, I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart, and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee. I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, and all that I have is thine. I give thee my past with its burdens. I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears. I give thee my future and all that it holds. There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, no place so secret, or so darkened by sin that thy presence and thy influence are not wholly and ardently desired there. I want to be completely transparent with thee, utterly simple, guileless, and childlike. Thou knowest, O Mother, all my preoccupations, all my intentions, and all those recommended to my prayer. Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix, present them to thy Son. Seeing them presented by thee and held in thy maternal Heart, there is nothing that He will not do to give to each intention the one response worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart. Praying in this way, I can be at rest, for thou art my Mother, and all that I entrust to thee will be, I am sure, received, and considered, and cared for with a Mother's love. Amen.

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[Uri’el-2012]

Can you post it in HEBREW?

I’d like to print it for my wall.

The Disciples’ Prayer in Hebrew

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[mlizzy]

Catholics accuse those who expose erroneous Catholic doctrine as *hate*. Tell us what makes it hate and how.

Metmom, it's disrespectful. If you see the comment number in your travels through this thread (where I used the word hate, other than to quote someone else who used the word), please send it to me. I usually use the word disrespectful or similar which is what it is referred to (for instance) when you QUOTE someone and do not use their real name.

As far as Catholic doctrine being erroneous in your belief, who is it that we as Catholics are hurting when we believe in Mary's miraculous appearances instructing us about this and that in regard to bringing peoples to her Son. The Catholic faith is responsible for creating the fire in the souls of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, John Paul II, St. Louis De Montfort, St. Padre Pio, St. Therese Lisieux "The Little Flower," St. John Vianney, St. Joseph, and on and on and on and on. They all spoke of their love of The Most Holy Eucharist and The Holy Rosary as well. Are ALL the blesseds and saints somehow mistaken? To me, the proof is in the pudding; one does not become that holy following erroneous doctrine.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

“There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim 2:5)

[metmom]

None that I can recall, but I wasn’t positive.

[wmfights]

When I read the bit about her and Elizabeth, they just sound like two very devoted motherly types.

I agree completely. The problem is all the nonsense that gets added on.

Not anything to build a doctrine on!

Exactly!

There is no special role for Mary laid out in Scripture other than as Mother of Jesus. She had no understanding of what was coming, or how Jesus was going to save all believers. She was by all accounts a good mom, concerned about her son, nothing more.

The only reason people bow down to statues of her and pray to her is they are stuck on the wrong side of the cross. They are still caught up in the belief that works and consideration from "special persons" is the key to salvation.

[wmfights]

That’s been my experience, too. At least with any worth their salt.

You know it's really kind of interesting. My son is on the baseball team and for home games they play double headers on Saturday's. The two priests that live at the school often come by and we talk. The RC parents are usually just quiet while we disagree. I think the Priests enjoy being treated as normal and I know I enjoy the discussions.

[metmom]

As far as Catholic doctrine being erroneous in your belief, who is it that we as Catholics are hurting when we believe in Mary's miraculous appearances instructing us about this and that in regard to bringing peoples to her Son.

Those who are led astray into worshiping and praying to dead people. If it leads away from Christ, it's hurting people.

The Catholic faith is responsible for creating the fire in the souls of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, John Paul II, St. Louis De Montfort, St. Padre Pio, St. Therese Lisieux "The Little Flower," St. John Vianney, St. Joseph, and on and on and on and on.

Silly me. All this time I thought that was the job of the Holy Spirit.

They all spoke of their love of The Most Holy Eucharist and The Holy Rosary as well. Are ALL the blesseds and saints somehow mistaken?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" That kind of devotion belongs to God alone.

What is the Catholic church's obsession with canonizing people? What purpose does it serve?

Why pray to them and ask favors of them? Do Catholics not believe that God can and does answer prayer? Do they expect to get something out of Mary or other *saints* that they can't or won't get out of God? Why would they? If God isn't going to give us something through prayer, what makes ANYONE think that anyone else is going to cross God's will and do it anyway?

Why the need to venerate Mary and lift her up as ever virgin, immaculately conceived, bodily assumed, and hearing and answering our prayers?

Mary didn't die for us. Jesus did. She can't do anything for us that God can. We don't NEED her.

[metmom]

The Roman Catholic Church gives attributes to Mary that belong only to Jesus.

She was not conceived without sin. She was no taken into heaven without dying. She does not hear and answer our prayers.

She must be heartbroken to see lies about her spread like that.

[mlizzy]

I’m beginning to wonder if some children are playing with your keyboard and account.

Do you attract any Christians to your faith via the way you speak?

[count-your-change]

I suspect Mary would choke too. But does this sound familiar? Mary as the instructor of the apostles and ever virgin:

Chapter 5
“1) But they were grieved. They wept greatly, saying, How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare Him, how will they spare us?
2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.
3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.
4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.
6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.
7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.
8) And she began to speak to them these words: I, she said, I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to Him, Lord I saw you today in a vision. He answered and said to me....”

English Translation at the Gnostic Society Library
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene

19. . And immediately “the cloud disappeared out of the cave, and a great light shone in the cave, so that the eyes could not bear it. And in a little that light gradually decreased, until the infant appeared, and went and took the breast from His mother Mary. And the midwife cried out, and said: This is a great day to me, because I have seen this strange sight. And the midwife went forth out of the cave, and Salome met her. And she said to her: Salome, Salome, I have a strange sight to relate to thee: a virgin has brought forth — a thing which her nature admits not of. Then said Salome: As the Lord my God liveth, unless I thrust in my finger, and search the parts, I will not believe that a virgin has brought forth”

Roberts-Donaldson English Translation
The Protevangelion of James

Found at “Early Christian Writings’

[Tennessee Nana]

Placemark

[mlizzy]

The Roman Catholic Church gives attributes to Mary that belong only to Jesus. She was not conceived without sin. She was no taken into heaven without dying. She does not hear and answer our prayers. She must be heartbroken to see lies about her spread like that.

She is heartbroken because she has been all but eliminated in non-Catholic faiths. I can only quote Bishop Sheen in regard to what you feel is the Roman Catholic Church:

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is of course, quite a different thing" --Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.

[count-your-change]

Oh...A red pen edition? You mean Gen 3:15? Yes, the catechism calls Mary Eve. The rest of Scriptures explain why that is false.

[mlizzy]

The Catholic faith is responsible for creating the fire in the souls of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, John Paul II, St. Louis De Montfort, St. Padre Pio, St. Therese Lisieux "The Little Flower," St. John Vianney, St. Joseph, and on and on and on and on. -- Silly me. All this time I thought that was the job of the Holy Spirit.

The RMC creates the "fire" through the Holy Spirit via the Most Holy Eucharist which IS Christ. The Eucharist has been eliminated in other faiths. That's what makes them weak, and in my opinion, why some of their members lash out so at Catholicism. They have the Word, but not the Body. All saints spoke of the power of the Eucharist. You should take pains to not remain ignorant (in regard to the RMC) your entire life. Read the Archbishop Sheen quote.

[metmom]

The Roman Catholic Church DOES teach all those things about Mary.

I was raised Roman Catholic. I know.

You can’t tell me otherwise and expect me to believe it.

[wagglebee]

The Roman Catholic Church gives attributes to Mary that belong only to Jesus.

Name ONE.

Even if you dispute the Immaculate Conception, Adam and Eve were both created without sin, so that's out.

The Catholic Church has NEVER stated whether or not the Blessed Mother died. However, Elijah was taken into Heaven. Aside from the Assumption and the Ascension are two totally different events, the real similarity is that they both occurred by the Will and Power of God, not the Blessed Mother. So, that's out too.

Do you have any other theories?

She must be heartbroken to see lies about her spread like that.

So, you acknowledge that she IS alive in Heaven.

[metmom]

We have all we need in Christ. What’s the point in adding to Him?

Why the whole hierarchy of saints? Why pray to them and Mary when we can go directly to God the Father as Jesus commanded we do?

The Eucharist is not necessary. Christ died ONCE FOR ALL.
Jesus commanded that communion be done in remembrance of him. That’s all it is.

[metmom]

The Immaculate Conception.

Only Jesus was born without sin.

Mary is not co-redeemer.

She cannot answer our prayers like Catholic prayers ask her to.

I never said that Mary ascended herself. But there’s no Scripture to indicate that she never died but rather was assumed.

Why is Mary so important to the Catholic faith? We have all we need in Jesus. What’s the point in adding more?

[metmom]

I never said that she wasn’t alive in heaven.

[wagglebee]

The Eucharist is not necessary. Christ died ONCE FOR ALL.

What does that have to do with the Catholic Church? Nearly all Protestant denominations also have the Eucharist (and a great many of them believe a form of the Real Presence).

Jesus commanded that communion be done in remembrance of him.

Let's see what Saint Paul had to say about that:

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
-- 1 Corinthians 11:26-29

If it's a "once for all" why do it often?<{> How can a person be guilty or unworthy of a remembrance? There is NOTHING to discern about a memory that means nothing