St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome

Ignatius Insigiht.com ^ | not given | Stephen K. Ray

[Salvation]

Stephen K. Ray was raised in a devout, loving Baptist family. His father was a deacon and Bible teacher and Stephen was very involved in the Baptist Church as a teacher of Biblical studies and lectured on a wide range of topics. Steve and his wife Janet entered the Catholic Church in 1994. In addition to running a family business, Steve spends time researching, writing, and teaching about the Catholic Faith. He is the author of Crossing the Tiber: Evangelical Protestants Discover the Historical Church, Upon This Rock: St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome in Scripture and the Early Church, and St. John's Gospel: A Bible Study and Commentary. He is currently producing a 10-video series for Ignatius Press called The Footprints of God: The Story of Salvation From Abraham to Augustine, filmed on location in the Holy Land. His website is www.catholic-convert.com.

[GOP Poet]

thanks Salvation!

[Salvation]

**The quickest way to achieve jurisdictional or doctrinal victory is to subvert or disarm the opponent. In this case it would have been as simple as proving from the Bible or from tradition that Peter, and subsequently his successors in Rome, had no primacy, no authority to rule in the Church. Yet, as even Webster freely admits, this refutation never occurred.**

Comments, anyone?

[Salvation]

Most welcome!

[Salvation]

St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome
SAINT PETER'S CHAINS (44 A.D.)
Heart of the Church (St. Peter in Words and Stone)
A Saint for the Rest of Us
On This Rock

WAS ST. PETER IN ROME?
St. Peter and Rome
Did the Apostle Peter Ever Visit Rome?
Occasionally Naive and Fearful, Yet Honest and Capable of Repentance (Profile of St. Peter)
Saint Peter As Seen by His Successor (extraordinary document from B16 on his preaching and papacy)
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE FEAST OF SAINTS PETER AND PAUL
Peter, Witness of the Resurrection (Papal preparations for Easter 2006)
The Fraternal Society of St. Peter on EWTN
Saint Peter and the Vatican, the Legacy of the Popes
Saint Peter and The Vatican - Legacy of the Popes

[muawiyah]

Due to the exigencies and contingencies precipitated by the climatic failure of roughly 531-544 (Mt. Hekla, among other things, blew up big time and spewed fluorine gas everywhere it could), the Irish church ended up fairly isolated from Rome for a very long time.

Eventually as the Irish began re~Christianizing Europe from the West, and Rome began re-Christianizing Europe from the South, there was a conflict.

Some imagine that Rome won. I think it's worth a thorough examination to see if that was really true ~ once that's completely established or discredited, then we might get into this business of a Catholic/Protestant conflict ~ which isn't as big as Catholics imagine it to be.

[netmilsmom]

>>~ which isn’t as big as Catholics imagine it to be. <<

Yeah, we’re always told that on FR Religion forum before we are called a multitude of names.

[muawiyah]

Names are just names. Can you imagine what it was like way back in the day when Rene d'Anjou woke up and discovered his grandsons had precipitated THE RELIGIOUS WARS?

Like, my goodness ~ fellow had close blood relatives on BOTH sides ~ killing each other even!

Names are good ~ they let people vent ~ and they are much better than killings.

[netmilsmom]

>>Names are good<<

Says the one not being called names.
Seriously, name calling is not for adults.

[Judith Anne]

Oh, right, I get it. We Catholic FReepers should be grateful that the anti-Catholic bigot FReepers are just calling us names, instead of killing us.

Okaaaaayy..

[muawiyah]

And vice versa.

The "Religious Wars" (owned, operated, organized and started by my relatives in Late Medieval France) ended with the Edict of Nantes which established ~ for probably the first time in human history ~ with a mandate for religious toleration.

They decided it was better to call each other names than to burn out towns, cities, farm fields, orchards, shipyards, and all sorts of things.

There followed a fairly decent period of time. Then came the Thirty Years War. It had a religious element in it. That ended with the Peace of Westphalia.

The modern "nation state" arose out of the standards established in that series of treaties. At the same time both Protestants and Catholics were strongly encouraged by all the parties and powers in Europe to buck up and take it like a man when somebody called names ~ and that's been pretty much the way it's been ever since.

I think it's a great idea, and I'm sure that a few weeks of the alternative you'd agree too!

BTW, the Orthodox didn't sign on not having been part of the altercation! And neither did the Moslems. This is instructive ~ our worst ideological conflicts since the end of WWII have involved the Russians (Orthodox) and now Islamofascism (certainly Moslem influenced).

Neither party in those conflicts pursued resolution after the manner imagined in the Peace of Westphalia.

Probably time to get those people signed on.

[muawiyah]

NOTE: I don't get called names?

Hmmm. Let me see if I can get the rules changed eh!

[Salvation]

**I don’t get called names?**

Then you haven’t been on FR for very long.

[Theo]

Seems to me that Paul didn’t entirely respect Peter’s views.

May we find our lineage in Christ, not Peter. May we find our home in heaven, not Rome. May we promote Jesus, and not our particular denomination.

Yes, Roman Catholicism is one of the branches of faith whose root finds itself in Christ. Personally, I am grateful for the “remnant” that has continued through the root of Christ, separate from the heresies that emerged over centuries in the dominant denomination.

Again, I please with all who find their home in Rome: Let us promote Christ. May He increase, and our denominational preferences decrease. Let us think how we can spur one another on to deeper faith in Christ, rather than look for ways to slam the way others follow Him.

If you are a Christ-follower, you will meet me in heaven. He has welcomed me as a member of His family; please, consider me a full member of the family of God as well, a full participant in His church: the full body of those who follow Him. Don’t demean my faith in Jesus because I’m not a member of your particular denomination, your particular branch from the root of Jesus.

[netmilsmom]

>>NOTE: I don’t get called names?<<

Are you Catholic or LDS?
Those are the FReepers I see getting it.

Honestly, in this day and age, with the huge battle we have raging against us, I find it childish and unproductive.

[Nosterrex]

The truth is that there is nothing in the Scriptures that support the monarchical episcopacy of the Roman Catholic Church. For instance, you cannot find anything in the Apostolic fathers that even mentions the papacy. Even the Scriptural passages used talks about the church being built upon the foundation of the apostles, not apostle. All the apostles shared equally in the Holy Ministry of Christ, not just Peter. In Acts, Peter has to defend himself in the Council of Jerusalem, and he is even rebuked by Paul at Galatia. There is nothing in the Scriptures or the early church that supports papal claims.

[netmilsmom]

How about 2010?
Let’s let bygones be bygones and talk about today on FR.

I just got off a doozy of a thread where some FReeper called me every name in the book because I didn’t agree with her that Jesus was the same person as an infant as He was when He was on the cross and that calling ones mother “woman” can be a sign of respect (as we Poles call our mothers Baba).

She even told me that Baba means crone. Nice.

[Judith Anne]

“Thou art Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

Ring a bell? Matthew 16:18?

[Salvation]

Maybe you didn’t read the article above?

**The same Paul who has called Christ the only foundation, tells his Ephesian converts (2:20):—”Ye are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone.” And in like manner we read (Rev 21:14) :—”The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.” **

[BARLF]

I agree.

Thank you