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LDS Church Battening Down Hatches (OPEN)
The Mormon Times ^ | Wednesday, Apr. 14, 2010 | Jerry Earl Johnston

Posted on 04/15/2010 8:56:50 AM PDT by T Minus Four

Think of the Salt Lake Temple as a designer bottle holding a one-of-a-kind fragrance.

Think of the gardens and buildings of Temple Square as bubble wrap around that container.

Think of the City Creek Center to the south, the Church Plaza to the east, the Conference Center to the north, and the Family History Library and Church History Museum to the west as a firm, sturdy box around all of it.

When something merits that much protection, you have to figure rough bumps and bounces are coming down the road.

I get a feeling the LDS Church sees turbulence ahead -- nasty weather -- and it is making preparations.

It's not about being defensive and keeping things out.

It's about being protective and keeping precious things safe.

When the chilly winds blow, forest creatures gather all that's life-sustaining about them.

Horses in the fields cluster together to stand against the hail.

I feel the LDS Church battening down the hatches for bad weather.

The Tabernacle Choir, which was performing musical versions of Robert Frost poetry and other secular works, now releases CDs filled with songs of faith, assurance and the need to rely on the Divine.

I feel protection is the point behind the long row of sentries -- those Mormon temples -- that stand along the Wasatch -- the new Brigham City temple, new Payson temple, the new remade Ogden temple and all the others.

I feel protect precious things is the point of the new mission statements of LDS businesses, the point for books that are picked for publication and the lessons selected for manuals.

Part of the world would divide and conquer.

The church would gather and protect.

Something uneasy this way comes. Not a vilent clash as in Jerusalem -- where cultures fight openly. We won't be seeing stone throwers in the streets of Salt Lake City.

The battle here won't be about territory.

It will be about choices -- about the advent of a bolder, more self-indulgent popular culture.

The church can see the writing on the wall -- often literally.

And graffiti on the temple will never do.

It's time -- as the old hymn has it -- to "safely gather in, ere the winter storms begin."

The plan is not to force people away.

The plan is to keep what's on the inside safe from harm.

And if that means putting up ramparts and watchtowers, so be it.

Even heaven, if you believe the stories, is a gated community -- not to keep people away, but to safeguard the gentle hearts of those who dwell there.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: jerjohn@desnews.com Jerry Earl Johnston chronicles his take on the Mormon experience in his column “New Harmony,” which appears on MormonTimes.com on Wednesdays and Sundays.


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon
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To: MsLady

I only pass through to visit friends.


361 posted on 04/16/2010 2:02:33 AM PDT by reaganaut ( I'm not an apostate, God rescued me from Mormonism.)
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To: MsLady

Praying for your friend.


362 posted on 04/16/2010 2:02:45 AM PDT by reaganaut ( I'm not an apostate, God rescued me from Mormonism.)
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To: reaganaut

never gonna get through this thread placemarker.


363 posted on 04/16/2010 2:07:12 AM PDT by reaganaut ( I'm not an apostate, God rescued me from Mormonism.)
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To: T Minus Four
It's about being protective and keeping precious things safe.

Nah...

It's about keeping offensive things suppressed.

364 posted on 04/16/2010 3:41:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Goldsborough
Think of the Salt Lake Temple as a designer bottle holding a one-of-a-kind fragrance.

Ecclesiastes 10:1
"Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour."

365 posted on 04/16/2010 3:43:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
It sounds like satire.

Just wait until MORMON 'scripture' gets posted in this thread!

366 posted on 04/16/2010 3:44:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
...and there are many translations, and not all of them correct.


367 posted on 04/16/2010 3:48:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut

I’m using the ejonesie22 definition.


368 posted on 04/16/2010 3:49:23 AM PDT by ejonesie22
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To: JDW11235
 

Yep, people are entitled to their own opinions, as incorrect as they may be.

 
 
Thank you!
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?
 [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.
When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?
[Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:
"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73);
"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);
"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199);
"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24);
"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed:
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44),
"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated:
"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);
"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said:
"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266).
"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:
"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265);
"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132);
"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269);
"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated:
"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 

369 posted on 04/16/2010 3:50:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
There are many more records out there than contained in the current version of the Bible. Many :)

DUH!

John 21:25

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

370 posted on 04/16/2010 3:53:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
However, I won’t provide you with details because you should have to find out on your own :)

I know the feeling!

Every time I ask a MORMON just what Joseph Smith supposely learned was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism!

371 posted on 04/16/2010 3:54:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: colorcountry
 
You might actually learn something about actual translation processes that don’t include putting your face in a hat!




"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.



372 posted on 04/16/2010 3:56:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
The fact is, it is KNOWN and GIVEN that the current Bible is missing texts. It’s incomplete, and that’s FACT.

Sigh, sigh, sigh...

It isn't the so called MISSING parts of the bible that are a problem for MORMONs, but the FACT that what WAS known was so totally IGNORED by MORMON leadership!


 
 
 


 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.




 
BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!
 



 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

 TRUTH IGNORED

Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

373 posted on 04/16/2010 3:59:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
WRONG!!!! NOT just like any other church. MOST Christian churches (all the ones I can think of) take you name off the membership rolls if you do not attend for a certain period of time.

In MY church (Wesleyan denomination) we periodically go thru our 'membership' list and note members who have not attended for a long time and mail them to see if they still wish to remain a member. Some cannot be found, which will put them on a track to be removed, some say "Yes, remove me because I'm now attending somewhere else", others state that they DO want to remain on the roll, even though they do not attend regularlly

374 posted on 04/16/2010 4:03:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
Sadly, their agenda is to destroy.

AMEN!

I, personally, want to DESTORY the facade that the LDS religious Organization&reeg; has erected: to ILLUMINATE the deception that it practices and EDUCATE the deceived by it's very own words!

375 posted on 04/16/2010 4:06:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
 
Yep. I don't need a stinking index card in a secretaries office to know that I am a member of the Body of Christ, not a denomination or a building.

NIV Philippians 4:3
   Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
 

NIV Revelation 3:5
   He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
 

NIV Revelation 13:8-9
 8.  All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
 9.  He who has an ear, let him hear.
 

NIV Revelation 17:8
   The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Revelation 20
 
 1.  And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
 2.  He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
 3.  He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
 4.  I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 5.  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
 6.  Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
 7.  When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
 8.  and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
 9.  They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
 10.  And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 11.  Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
 12.  And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
 13.  The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
 14.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
 15.  If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 
 
 

NIV Revelation 21:27
   Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
 
Is YOUR name written there?

376 posted on 04/16/2010 4:08:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
Sorry you’re sad. Read the Bible!
.
.
.
You may not care, but I don’t dislike you, I don’t look down on you, I don’t think you’re bad.
 
You need to read the Book of MORMON!


 

 
 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 14
 
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 
 
   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

377 posted on 04/16/2010 4:12:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
 
They’re not presenting fact, and making arguments, they’re expressing opinion.
 
HMmmm...


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/20#20

 
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 
 
I still wait for FACTS to be shown that support JS' allegations here.

378 posted on 04/16/2010 4:15:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JDW11235
 

Which version of the “Bible” are you talking about? You’re more cunning, I’ll give you that.


 

How about a sample??
 




Added stuff...                                                                                                    Changed stuff...                        Rearranged stuff...                                                                    Removed stuff...

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
 
  1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
  2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
  3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
  4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
  5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
  6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
  7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
  8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
  9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
  10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
  11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
  12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
  13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
  14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
  15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
  16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
  17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
  18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
  19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
  20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
  21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
  22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
  23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
  24 Behold, I have told you before;
  25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
  26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
  28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
  29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
  30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
  31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
  32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
  33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
  34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
  35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
  36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
  37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
  38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
  39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
  40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
  41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
  42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
  43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
  45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
  46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
  47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
  48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
  49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
  50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
  51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
  52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
  53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
  55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39  24:1-51
 
 
 
 
 
 39.  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 

 1.  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
 2.  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 3.  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 4.  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 5.  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
 6.  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7.  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 8.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
 9.  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
 10.  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
 11.  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 12.  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
 13.  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 14.  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 15.  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 16.  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 17.  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
 18.  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
 19.  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
 20.  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
 21.  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 22.  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 23.  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
 24.  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
 25.  Behold, I have told you before.
 26.  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
 27.  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 28.  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
 29.  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30.  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 31.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 32.  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
 33.  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
 34.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 35.  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 36.  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 37.  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 38.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

 39.  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 40.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 41.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 42.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 43.  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
 44.  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
 45.  Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
 46.  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
 47.  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
 48.  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
 49.  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
 50.  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  51.  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
 
 
 
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain
 
 

379 posted on 04/16/2010 4:17:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: T Minus Four
Well, that's what the article said: "I feel the LDS Church battening down the hatches for bad weather. "

That what the BARGES needed for bad weather since there were HOLES in the bottoms of them!

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=d5585930f289b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

380 posted on 04/16/2010 4:19:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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