Posted on 02/28/2010 8:30:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
John Calvin's 16th century reply to medieval Catholicism's buy-your-way-out-of-purgatory excesses is Evangelicalism's latest success story, complete with an utterly sovereign and micromanaging deity, sinful and puny humanity, and the combination's logical consequence, predestination: the belief that before time's dawn, God decided whom he would save (or not), unaffected by any subsequent human action or decision.
Calvinism, cousin to the Reformation's other pillar, Lutheranism, is a bit less dour than its critics claim: it offers a rock-steady deity who orchestrates absolutely everything, including illness (or home foreclosure!), by a logic we may not understand but don't have to second-guess. Our satisfaction — and our purpose — is fulfilled simply by "glorifying" him. In the 1700s, Puritan preacher Jonathan Edwards invested Calvinism with a rapturous near mysticism. Yet it was soon overtaken in the U.S. by movements like Methodism that were more impressed with human will. Calvinist-descended liberal bodies like the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) discovered other emphases, while Evangelicalism's loss of appetite for rigid doctrine — and the triumph of that friendly, fuzzy Jesus — seemed to relegate hard-core Reformed preaching (Reformed operates as a loose synonym for Calvinist) to a few crotchety Southern churches.
No more. Neo-Calvinist ministers and authors don't operate quite on a Rick Warren scale. But, notes Ted Olsen, a managing editor at Christianity Today, "everyone knows where the energy and the passion are in the Evangelical world" — with the pioneering new-Calvinist John Piper of Minneapolis, Seattle's pugnacious Mark Driscoll and Albert Mohler, head of the Southern Seminary of the huge Southern Baptist Convention. The Calvinist-flavored ESV Study Bible sold out its first printing, and Reformed blogs like Between Two Worlds are among cyber-Christendom's hottest links.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. - 1 Tim 2
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent... - Acts 17
Calvin, or God? Calvin, or God? Choices, choices!
No one disagrees with any of the Scripture you post. But who will believe and who will not?
The natural man does not believe and the spiritual man believes.
And that distinction is not man-made but God-ordained. Paul anticipated your faulty reasoning and answered it...
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" -- Romans 9:19-21"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Who will believe? Those who chose to believe what God has revealed to them. Those who obey the command of God for all men everywhere to repent.
“Your understanding of Scripture has been refuted for months now on these threads.”
Your choice of Calvin over scripture has been demonstrated for some time now. “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” - Jesus, Mark 1
Yes, Scripture is plain about how one is reconciled to God but not all of Scripture is plain or equal in understanding. If one wants to grow in the knowledge of God he must go beyond simplistic readings of individual verses and try to fit all the Scriptural data together. Peter talked about how Paul wrote in complex structures and the Eunich needed help interpreting the OT with the NT. If you want to stay on milk that's your choice.
Calvin based his theory of salvation on the idea we are "dead" in our sin, so that we must be first born again to belief. In doing so, he skipped all the scriptures talking about us as slaves of sin, or servants of sin, or sick & needing healing.
Ahhhh...I don't think he skipped those Scriptures but they actually work in agreement with the "dead in sins" context. If you have some actual arguments against Calvin besides the paltry, "he wrote his systematics at 26", which doesn't take into effect that he revised his work throughout his life, then quote some of his work that you disagree with.
Unto some men it will be said, "Depart, ye cursed, into everlasting fire." If God willeth all men to be saved, then all men will be saved, for "He (God) doeth according to His will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth" (Dan 4:35). God faileth not, He cannot be disappointed in His own will, for He worketh all things after the counsel of it. Again, in Heb 2:9, Jesus is said to "taste death for every [man];" it is in the very next verse restricted to "sons brought to glory," and in Heb 2:11, to "sanctified" ones. 1Ti 2:6 ("who gave Himself a ransom for all") is rendered in the parallel text in Tit 2:14, "who gave Himself for us." Now, who are the persons called "us" in this text? Are they not particularized as "redeemed from all iniquity, purified and made a peculiar people?" For "all" of this description Christ gave Himself a ransom, and for none else. The prophet David saith, "All men are liars;" take the word strictly, and he must be a liar that saith so..."All" in 1Ti 2:4, cannot be taken for every man individually, since it is not the will of God that all men in this large sense should be saved: for it is His will that some men should be damned, and that very justly, for their sins and transgressions.
Amen.
And those who will repent and believe are those who first have been given new eyes and new ears and a new heart and a renewed mind by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
You somehow seem to think those abilites are self-generated. They are not. They are free gifts from God to whom He will, and those gifts given by grace to enable faith, are God's alone to give to whom He will.
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" -- 1 Thess. 5:9"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48
That includes you, Rogers, whether you know it or not.
“”All” in 1Ti 2:4, cannot be taken for every man individually, since it is not the will of God that all men in this large sense should be saved...”
Nothing like assuming one’s argument to prove it!
It IS God’s desire that all men repent and turn to Him, for he loves all and Jesus came because God so loved the world.
It is ALSO God’s will that those he saves come to follow him as sons, not servants - that they CHOOSE to believe, rather than believe by compulsion. We are chosen for adoption thru faith, not chosen to have faith.
God does love “the world,” Rogers, because all of it serves His perfect purpose.
“If one wants to grow in the knowledge of God he must go beyond simplistic readings of individual verses and try to fit all the Scriptural data together. Peter talked about how Paul wrote in complex structures and the Eunich needed help interpreting the OT with the NT. If you want to stay on milk that’s your choice.”
What is next - a call for a Magisterium to explain scripture to us?
Sola Scriptura is worthless IF a person cannot read the scriptures and find what to do to be saved. And that means using hundreds of plain verses to explain 4 or 5 hard ones, not using 4 or 5 hard ones to explain hundreds of simple ones.
30Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” - Acts 16
Doesn’t take a degree in theology!
The Prodigal Son was ‘dead’ - did the Father come and kidnap him from the pigsties? Or was the ‘dead’ son capable of repentance?
About the year 1728, Voltaire, so celebrated for his wit and brilliancy, and not less distinguished for his hatred of christianity and his abandonment of principle, formed a systematical design to destroy christianity, and to introduce in its stead a general diffusion of irreligion and atheism. For this purpose he associated with himself Frederic the II, king of Prussia, and Mess. D’Alembert and Diderot, the principal compilers of the Encyclopedie; all men of talents, atheists, and in the like manner abandoned.The principal parts of this system were,
1st. The compilation of the Encyclopedie;† in which with great art and insidiousness the doctrines of natural as well as Christian theology were rendered absurd and ridiculous; and the mind of the reader was insensibly steeled against conviction and duty.
2. The overthrow of the religious orders in Catholic countries; a step essentially necessary to the destruction of the religion professed in those countries.
3. The establishment of a sect of philosophists to serve, it is presumed, as a conclave, a rallying point, for all their followers.
4. The appropriation to themselves, and their disciples, of the places and honours of members of the French Academy, the most respectable able literary society in France, and always considered as containing none but men of prime learning and talents. In this way they designed to hold out themselves, and their friends, as the only persons of great literary and intellectual distinction in that country, and to dictate all literary opinions to the nation.
5. The fabrication of books of all kinds against christianity, especially such as excite doubt, and generate contempt and derision . . .
While these measures were advancing the great design with a regular and rapid progress, Doctor Adam Weishaupt, professor of the canon law in the University of Ingolstadt, a city of Bavaria (in Germany) formed, about the year 1777, the order of Illuminati. This order is professedly a higher order of Masons, originated by himself, and grafted on ancient Masonic institutions. The secresy, solemnity, mysticism, and correspondence of Masonry, were in this new order preserved and enhanced; while the ardour of innovation, the impatience of civil and moral restraints, and the aims against government, morals, and religion, were elevated, expanded, and rendered more systematical, malignant, and daring.
In the societies of Illuminati doctrines were taught, which strike at the root of all human happiness and virtue; and every such doctrine was either expressly or implicitly involved in their system.
The being of God was denied and ridiculed.
Government was asserted to be a curse, and authority a mere usurpation.
Civil society was declared to be the only apostasy of man.
The possession of property was pronounced to be robbery.
Chastity and natural affection were declared to be nothing more than groundless prejudices.
Adultery, assassination, poisoning, and other crimes of the like infernal nature, were taught as lawful, and even as virtuous actions.
To crown such a system of falshood and horror all means were declared to be lawful, provided the end was good.
Full text: The Duty of Americans at the Present Crisis
Why does one man choose to repent and come, and another,hearing the same word not? Does one have more grace? is he smarter? more clever? More spiritual?
If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved. He’s God. We’re not.
I reluctantly backed into the Reformed camp upon discovering that they had pretty well cornered the market on the Christian world view. Arminians specialize in various navel views, varieties of religious experience. Calvinists have a bearing on how to apply their faith to the world around them.
But the inward call of God to His children is targeted, specific, determined, intentional and accomplishes all that God ordains.
"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." -- John 17:9
Amen. Navel-gazing is not expressly forbidden, but certainly discouraged. 8~)
It does however take humility to see that one is NOT the captain of his own ship, he does not own the ship or direct its route.. the port is determined by the one that owns the ship..
Pride is an insidious sin.
No, I choose Calvin's understanding of Scripture over yours.
And speaking of Rome, if it weren't for these Reformers who all believed in sovereign grace you would still be kissing the Pope's ring and bowing to statues of Mary.
AMEN!
"Seeing that a Pilot steers the ship in which we sail, who will never allow us to perish even in the midst of shipwrecks, there is no reason why our minds should be overwhelmed with fear and overcome with weariness" -- John Calvin" O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." -- Jeremiah 10:23
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