Posted on 02/26/2010 1:08:31 AM PST by Gamecock
So I have a question about terminology.
Some of our Catholic FRiends get upset when we Prods use the term Roman Catholic, insisting that the term is derogatory, insulting, etc.
What I would like to discuss is why do Catholics complain about the term Roman Catholic, when the term is in such wide use inside of the Catholic church?
Thoughts?
Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches
Disheartening 2002 article with lots of stats, but nothing that would lead one to exclaim that, to quote you, "sexual abuse by and among Protestant clergy is as much as five times more prevalent than among Catholic clergy."
The 70 incidents a week stat by CMR is for any allegations of abuse, and is thus not comparable to the "credible accusations" that were adduced for the RC Church in the AP article I linked. The article does claim that only 5% (19, 500) of the 350,000 churches in the US are RC; it's frightening how so few churches can generate so many abuse accusations, don't you think?
Child sex abuse by Protestant clergy difficult to document
This 2007 article, once again, does not have any numbers that would support your "five times more prevalent" argument. In fact, the insurance company stats it DOES give are the same as what was in the AP article I linked to from the NYT.
There was this disturbing bit, however:
By contract, Catholic bishops commissioned the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University to track and publish an annual report on credible allegations of sexual misconduct among priests and deacons. For 2006, CARA showed 635 new and "credible allegations" were lodged against 394 priests or deacons from Jan. 1 to Dec. 31. That compares to 695 in 2005 and 898 in 2004.
Remember the numbers from the AP article? 260 cases/year for the 165,000 Protestant Churches insured by these 3 companies. Now let's compare that with the 635 (2006), 695 (2005), and 898 (2004) "credible allegations" per year coming from a mere 16,500 RC churches. Pretty horrible, don't you think?
Welcome to a collection of news reports on ministers who have sexually abused children
A sad collection of cases of abuse by Protestant ministers from around the world. Very disturbing, but hardly proof of your "5 to 1" claim.
How the Clergy Sexual Abuse Scandal Affects Evangelical Churches
Why did you even post this link? This 2002 article doesn't support your argument. In fact, it includes gems like this:
"There are absolutely no Protestant equivalents," Anson Shupe, an Indiana University-Purdue University sociologist who researches clergy misconduct and new religious movements, told The Boston Globe. "If I could find some spectacular cases, that would help my career, but I can't. You don't have rapacious serial predators, and the Protestant establishment doesn't tolerate it the way the Catholic establishment has."
C'mon, Natural Law. Did you even bother to read the articles you linked?
Sex Abuse by Clerics - A Crisis of Many Faiths
Once again, this article does not prove your point. For example...
In the last decade, clergy sexual misconduct has been exposed in virtually every faith tradition. National studies have shown no differences in its frequency by denomination, region, theology or institutional structure.
When clergy prey, women pray to be heard
Fort-Worth Star telegram article from 1978. Horrible cases of abuse of adult women by Baptist pastors. Talk by members of the SBC to do something to prevent such abuse. No backing of your outrageous "5 to 1" claim.
******************************************************
My original assumption has turned out to be right. Not only have you provided NO evidence to back up your "five times more prevalent" claim, you have posted links to documents that not just undermine or contradict your claim but which even present the RC Church in a worse light.
C'mon, Natural Law. What's your source for your "five times more prevalent" criticism of us Protestants. Did your dog eat it?
Put up or shut up. Post the link!
My understanding is that the ELCA approved gay marriage/gay ministers last August. Disheartening, but the ELCA is hardly the entirety of the "Lutheran Church," whatever that is.
As to whether the RCC wil ever approve gay marriage -- I hope not, but who knows?
A nearby Bible Church. Not exactly a denomination.
In the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests*, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent. The reports of sexual misconduct and inappropriate behavior between Protestant clergy and adults is significantly higher.
*Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests (New York: Oxford University Press), pp. 50 and 81.
Thanks for the clarification, but isn’t that a hard standard apply? Some Freepers might get upset at any hint that you disagree with them.
Jenkins, is it? Time to visit the ILL desk, I guess.
Some posters do get upset over the slightest thing and still attempt to discuss their beliefs on “ecumenical” threads. It’s a challenge to find the “antagonism” line in such cases, even so, it’s much better than having a thin skinned poster on an “open” Religion Forum thread.
The point is not that anyones clergy is better or worse than anyone elses. Beginning in the 1930's the left, lead by the Nazi's, has had an organized campaign to undermine the moral authority of the Catholic Church by a series of public accusations and so-called Immorality Trials" in an effort to link pedophilia and sexual misconduct with Catholic Clergy in the public mind. Too many, with a traditional hatred or distrust of the Catholic Church are too quick to grab onto this and perform the role of the "useful idiot" for the left. I am just making sure that the truth be known.
...the "Lutheran Church," whatever that is.The professed followers of Luther.
As to whether the RCC wil ever approve gay marriage -- I hope not, but who knows?We know, never will happen my FRiend, never. The Gates of Hell will not prevail, dontcha know?
:)
Insurers receive UPWARD of 260 sex abuse cases per year in PROTESTANT churches.
From the Article:
"The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members."
You lose, Eckleburg.
"...Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said. The reports include accusations against clergy, church staff and volunteers."
So we have 260 accusations of sexual abuse among "clergy, church staff and volunteers." That means janitors, local hires, office workers, etc.
The article further states...
"Church Mutual, GuideOne and Brotherhood Mutual each provided statistics on sex abuse claims to The Associated Press, although they did not produce supporting documentation or a way to determine whether the reports were credible."
So within the hundreds of thousands of Protestant churches in the United States we have 260 reports of suspected, unsubstantiated abuse per year among "clergy, church staff and volunteers."
Let us now compare one Roman Catholic diocese, the Los Angeles Diocese, who paid out on one day in 2007 over $660 million dollars to settle real, actual, proven sexual abuse cases against Roman Catholic priests.
One day. One city. $660 million.
If Roman Catholics think this is "losing," then I suppose that's the same logic that Ignatius Loyola used when he said that if the papacy says "black is white," then, by gosh, black is white. lol.
I don't really think Ignatius would like it for people to put words in his mouth - or in his letters. If you read the epistle, nowhere is the word "Protestant" mentioned. It was addressing the heretical doctrine of the Docetists who did not believe in the physical body of Jesus Christ. They agreed with Gnostics in that he only seemed to die and that his body was an illusion, he was not truly human. In fact, some don't even call it heresy, because it was not a misunderstanding of Christian doctrine but a way-out-there, woo-woo philosophy. I know of no "Protestant" Christian faith that denies the human body of Jesus, his literal death and resurrection. Those are some of the "biggie" major doctrines upon which all true Christians have unity.
So sorry to disappoint you, but Ignatius would have welcomed me into his flock to participate in their Love Feasts any day!
Then you quote:
"...Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said. The reports include accusations against clergy, church staff and volunteers."
Same thing could be said about the Catholic Church. Settlements are not usually an admission of fault, but are a mitigation of risk. Just look at the settlements which large companies enter into every single day. I suspect that if the typical small protestant church had large assets or giant insurance policies they'd be getting hammered for large settlements for rampant sexual abuse of minors, as is discussed in this article.
And don't forget, the article also mentions that the 260 figure is just the "tip of the iceberg" for sexual abuse of minors within the thousands of protestant denominations. And I quote:
Joe Trull, editor of Christian Ethics Today and retired ethics professor at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, helped the Texas convention create its registry and says there are now about 11 cases involving clergy abuse with minors.
But he believes these are just the "tip of the iceberg'' because churches don't have to report abuse cases to the registry and aren't likely to.
"The problem we're having is that churches just weren't sending the names," Trull said. "In the normal scenario, they just try to keep it secret. We're going to have to be more proactive and let them know if they don't come forward, they're helping to perpetuate this problem."
Wow. Secrecy? Failure to report sexual abuse of minors? It would seem pretty hypocritical to bash Catholics for such things when protestant clergy do the same which you accuse their Catholic counterparts.
How many cases? Over how many years? How many were allegations recently made, that went back more than 20 years?
Well said. And remember, this is for ONE YEAR of the protestants:
“If there are over 260 sexual abuse claims per year involving minors.”
On the other hand, the Catholic settlement involved a diocese of over 4 million Catholics over greater than 20 years.
Let's look at what the article says about a jury verdict and settlements for the sexual abuse perpetrated by a protestant minister:
One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister's victims nearly $37 million (euro28 million). Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million.
$69 Million. One protestant preacher. Ouch.
Something just tells me that ain't gonna be acceptable either. I get the feeling it's "All or nothing - with 'nothing' not being possible.".
I asked that my incomplete post, 276, be removed. I need to remember to proofread. *sigh*
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.