Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
But what you're using as your final authority is YOUR INTERPRETATION of God's Word.
Context left out.
MoG.. denotes an ontological oneness with that which she is the mother of, but to which aspect she contributed nothing.
But that i mean she did not biologically contribute to who Jesus essentially is and was, God. In contrast, my mother did, may God bless her, as regards me. Again, while you do not claim Mary is the mother of Jesus Divinity, the constant uncritical use of the term, in contrast to the Biblical manner, is the issue.
ph
Except that the term Mother of God doesn’t exalt God, it exalts Mary as before God.
>I don’t consider Mary a demi-goddess in any way.<
I appreciate the contrast, but Rome gives those who go to extremes pretty much a free reign, yet even praying to Mary is not Biblical. Please find one place where any true believer anywhere in Scripture prayed to anyone else in Heaven but God, or where the Bible exalts anyone else to be a heavenly object of prayers. Considering the sufficiency the Holy Spirit ascribes to Him, there is no need, or warrant, nor for attributing to Mary powers of Deity or functions that belong to Him, such as,
“The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help...How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as ‘our Lady, our Mediatrix,’ (St. Bernard, Serm.II in Adv. 4) ‘the Reparatrix of the whole world,’ (St. Tharasius, Orat. in Praesentatione) ‘the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts.’ (On Off. Graec., 8 Dec.).” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #8.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm
‘O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.’” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #9.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm
.When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will.... St. Louis de Montfort, in Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, #27, 246. http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM
With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ. Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....Mary is this glorious intermediary...” Pope Leo XIII, in Octobri Mense (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 22, 1891, # 4.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro1.htm
Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: ‘Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.’”Pope Leo XIII, in Iucunda Semper Expectatione (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 8, 1894, #5.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro5.htm
All gifts which the Author of all good (God) has deigned to communicate to the unhappy posterity of Adam, are, according to the loving resolve of His Divine Providence, dispensed by the hands of the Most Holy Virgin.” Pope Benedict XV (AAS 9, 1917, 266) (quoted in “About Our Lady, our Blessed Mother”, by Our Lady’s Warriors).
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/abtmary.htm
“The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” Pope Pius IX, in Ubi Primum (On the Immaculate Conception), Encyclical promulgated on February 2, 1849, #5.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ubipr2.htm
“The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help...How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as ‘our Lady, our Mediatrix,’ (St. Bernard, Serm.II in Adv. 4) ‘the Reparatrix of the whole world,’ (St. Tharasius, Orat. in Praesentatione) ‘the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts.’ (On Off. Graec., 8 Dec.).” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #8.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13adiut.htm
“In conclusion: we may say that, in virtue of the divine salvific counsels ordaining a most perfect redemption, our Lady as Coredemptrix is included with Christ, the One Mediator.” Rev. Fr. Peter Damian M. Fehlner, F.F.I., professor of Catholic Theology, in Immaculata Mediatrix — Toward a Dogmatic Definition of the Coredemption.
http://www.voxpopuli.org/book_2_10.php
“Pope Pius XII explains in an address on the Queenship of Mary, ‘when the glorious Virgin Mary entered triumphantly into heaven and was elevated above the choirs of angels to the throne of the Most Holy Trinity.’ And then Christ ‘placed a triple crown of glory on her head, presented her to the heavenly court, seated her at his right hand and pronounced her Queen of the Universe.’...Opus Sanctorum Angelorum, Formation Letter, “Mary - ‘Regina Angelorum’”, April, 2000.
http://www.opusangelorum.org/Formation/Maryregina.html
See post 7,788. “anything but?” What a creature! Not even Michael the archangel or the mighty apostle Paul has such powers and functions ascribed to them in the heavenly realm. “All but unlimited power” “Dispenser of all gifts?” Chapter and verse please.
Actually I'm a Baptist. :)
No question about it. The growth of this heresy really took off after the Roman Church emerged as the dominant state church in the Roman Empire. The god like status for Mary made it an easier process for assimilation of masses of goddess worshipers. It seems to have died down in the middle ages and then resurfaced as the Reformation approached. Now it seems to be at the forefront of this church and it's main tool for evangelizing in the southern hemisphere.
It’s an important point. I don’t think it’s the point of critical difference between our perspectives.
But that i mean she did not biologically contribute to who Jesus essentially is and was, God. In contrast, my mother did, may God bless her, as regards me. Again, while you do not claim Mary is the mother of Jesus Divinity, the constant uncritical use of the term, in contrast to the Biblical manner, is the issue.
VERY WELL PUT, imho. Thanks.
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" -- 2 Timothy 2:25
"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light" -- Colossians 1:12
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" -- 1 Thess. 5:9
"(Christ) in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" -- Ephesians 1:11
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." -- John 10:26 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48
The bottom line is that we do not make ourselves saints and "partakers of the inheritence of the saints." That's an error of Rome. God names and numbers His family, from beginning to end, having declared the end from the beginning. And mercifully and marvelously, that adoption includes you and me, wretched sinners who cannot save ourselves, who cannot even want to save ourselves, but for the grace freely given to us by the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The reformers were correct: grace alone saves and saves completely because it is founded and carried out by the Triune God alone, "according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will."
"All things."
I believe the "Catechism" issue is overwhelmingly a STRAW DOG on this issue.
1. I suspect it will turn out to be incorrect that it's NEVER been hinted at even in the Catechism. Lord willing and I have time, I'll see.
2. HOWEVER, THERE'S TONS OF OTHER WRITINGS OF MORE THAN SLIGHTLY OFFICIAL, MORE THAN SEMI-OFFICIAL QUALITY AND NATURE--BY VIRTUE OF THE FOLKS AUTHORING SUCH--SOCIAL STAR CARDINALS--VATICAN OFFICES--LONG OFFICIALLY VATICAN APPROVED, RECOGNIZED PUBLISHING HOUSES ETC.WHICH HAVE MUCH MORE THAN HINTED AT MARY'S QUASI-DEITY STATUS.
This is the elephant in the living room which Vatican associates hereon seem to be unwilling and/or unable to see at all--or admit at all.
This allows the vast Vatican machine to have it both ways--a nice trick it is expert at with many hundreds of years of practice.
Personally, I find the outrageous amount of publishing OTHERWISE to be wholesale over the line into blasphemous UNBIBLICAL assertions, connotations, out-right statements, out-right appelations, out-right bowing and scraping, out-right fawning overwhelmingly and routinely beyond that which accures to Christ in the same organization . . . one could go on and on.
And unless and until some Responsible, balanced, Vatican associates hereon admit that status quo and begin to discuss it candidly, then I'll know that we are still dealing in straw dogs and that no real dialogue is possible on this matter.
Except that the term Mother of God doesn’t exalt God, it exalts Mary as before God.
###
ABSOLUTELY.
What a creature!
John 3:2
Not even Michael the archangel or the mighty apostle Paul has such powers and functions ascribed to them in the heavenly realm.Of course Michael doesn't have such powers. He's an angel. In Christ we are raised above angels. About Paul we could dicker, but She certainly spent more time with Jesus and in contact with Jesus and in Faith in Jesus than Paul did.
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