Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
To the contrary. I take God and eternal salvation very seriously. It is the Calvinist that I take lightly. You folks prate about different levels of rewards in heaven. My question is about that. Since the greatest reward is the company of God and the greatest torture is the absence of God, what are these different levels of reward? Do you sit in the nosebleed seats of God's throneroom if you are not rewarded as much as those who get front row between the speaker towers?
Pray enlighten me. It is not God I mock; it is the pagans, heretics and apostate who claim to speak for God. Including the neo Gnostic Calvinists.
Disabuse your postings of churlish and chauvanistic attitudes towards the other lung. Read up on Church history and you will find that while the East was the source of the first millennium heresies and the West was the buttress against those evils, that tide turned in the second millennium. Now it is the West that is the fount of heresy, and the East that has held the orthodoxy.
I suppose that since paper was in short supply, the extra 1000 pages was for wiping.
Since it is possible to sin against God how much more susceptible His Church.
That never happened. The fact is that historically, 95%+ of the population was illiterate and most local and regional languages and dialects had no written language. The Latin of the Church and the Bible was the lingua franca.
During the first 1500 years AD, it was more like 99%. And Greek, until the 400s, was the lingua franca. It remained until the 1700s and was displaced by English in the 1900s.
Col 1:9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. 10And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully 12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. 13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Nothing there about our works..only Christ
Nothing there about Peter being the head of the church..again only Christ..
I do not see anything contrary to reformed doctrine..only Catholism :)
Applause. You are finally getting it.
Jesus is our Lord God Almighty. Paul was a man. So was Moses and Abraham and David. I do not put their words on the same level as those of God's. That is not Christianity. To do so is to adopt a pagan attitude in which one worships men. If Paul's words are equal to God's, then Paul is equal to God and that is blasphemy.
Shhhhh that is a secret kept in a vault somewhere..
As for the ping list.. I just ping folks that ping me.. we are a friendly bunch
False. Calvinism appeals strictly to emotionalism - the need that so many people have to, since they understand that they are not worthy, to have a great benefactor appear out of nowhere and give them what others do not have without deserving it. It is an inferiority complex, compensated for by the myth of elitism. No different than the liberals inhabiting the current White House, for instance.
Nothing there about creating souls totally depraved from whom god also withholds the grace needed to be redeemed...souls he creates specifically for eternal damnation.
That’s a sick, twisted little god, not the Almighty God of Scripture.
God does not need to plan or God would be moved ... This is against what Scripture says..
“Every best gift, and every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is NO CHANGE, nor shadow of ALTERATION.”-James 1:17
God can not be moved and does no think in succession so everything is One NOW at once and together with God,thus God willed Adam perfectly and freely and Adam sinned all in one now to God as a secondary response against God's will.This applies to everything in creation as well
Perhaps this will help you,dear sister
From Saint Thomas Aquinas
That God understands all things at once and together
THE reason why our understanding cannot understand many things together in one act is because in the act of understanding the mind becomes one with the object understood;* whence it follows that, were the mind to understand many things together in one act, it would be many things together, all of one genus, which is impossible. Intellectual impressions are all of one genus: they are of one type of being in the existence which they have in the mind, although the things of which they are impressions do not agree in one type of being: hence the contrariety of things outside the mind does not render the impressions of those things in the mind contrary to one another. And hence it is that when many things are taken together, being anyhow united, they are understood together. Thus a continuous whole is understood at once, not part by part; and a proposition is understood at once, not first the subject and then the predicate: because all the parts are known by one mental impression of the whole.* Hence we gather that whatever several objects are known by one mental presentation, can be understood together: but God knows all things by that one presentation of them, which is His essence; therefore He can understand all together and at once.
2. The faculty of knowledge does not know anything actually without some attention and advertence. Hence the phantasms, stored in the sensorium, are at times not actually in the imagination, because no attention is given to them. We do not discern together a multitude of things to which we do not attend together: but things that necessarily fall under one and the same advertence and attention, are necessarily understood together. Thus whoever institutes a comparison of two things, directs his attention to both and discerns both together. But all things that are in the divine knowledge must necessarily fall under one advertence; for God is attentive to behold His essence perfectly, which is to see it to the whole reach of its virtual content, which includes all things. God therefore, in beholding His essence, discerns at once all things that are.
6. Every mind that understands one thing after another, is sometimes potentially intelligent, sometimes actually so; for while it understands the first thing actually, it understands the second potentially. But the divine mind is never potentially intelligent, but always actually: it does not, then, understand things in succession, but all at once.
Holy Scripture witnesses to this truth, saying that with God there is no change nor shadow of vicissitude (James i, 17).
“”What if Christ was never crucified?””
Christ is forever the second person in the Holy Trinity
BTW,Dear Sister,do you have a life outside of FR? I counted and you have almost 50 posts so far just today.
A golden calf in one's life can take many forms....even addiction to message boards
I don't think that God quite got who Calvin thought he was. I'm sure that Calvin straightened God out during his Judgement and corrected His errors with the same speed and barbarity that he visited upon Geneva.
OK, I never want to use a naming term that someone doesn't like. But a funny thing, on other threads I have used the term "RC" because of objections by Orthodox posters. Their issue is that Orthodoxy is every bit as "Catholic" as Catholicism in the common sense. So, if the issue is something like the Immaculate Conception, then some Orthodox don't like being lumped in under "Catholic". It can get a little confusing sometimes. :)
What happened to we know who is Catholic BY THEIR FAITH AND WORKS ...are folks that do not go to church or follow church law catholics?
Oh and please do not try to tell me the church does not judge... That would be the untruth joke of the century
From Trent
Canon 4. If anyone says that man’s free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God’s call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.
Canon 6. If anyone says that it is not in man’s power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.
Canon 7. If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.
Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.
Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ’s sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.
Canon 13. If anyone says that in order to obtain the remission of sins it is necessary for every man to believe with certainty and without any hesitation arising from his own weakness and indisposition that his sins are forgiven him, let him be anathema.
Canon 14. If anyone says that man is absolved from his sins and justified because he firmly believes that he is absolved and justified, or that no one is truly justified except him who believes himself justified, and that by this faith alone absolution and justification are effected, let him be anathema.
Canon 15. If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined, let him be anathema.
Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.
Canon 18. If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace, impossible to observe, let him be anathema.
Canon 19. If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel, that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor forbidden, but free; or that the ten commandments in no way pertain to Christians, let him be anathema.
Canon 20. If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the Church, but only to believe, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema.
Canon 23. If anyone says that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or on the contrary, that he can during his whole life avoid all sins, even those that are venial, except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin, let him be anathema.
Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.
Canon 25. If anyone says that in every good work the just man sins at least venially, or, what is more intolerable, mortally, and hence merits eternal punishment, and that he is not damned for this reason only, because God does not impute these works into damnation, let him be anathema.
Canon 26. If anyone says that the just ought not for the good works done in God to expect and hope for an eternal reward from God through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if by doing well and by keeping the divine commandments they persevere to the end, let him be anathema.
Canon 27. If anyone says that there is no mortal sin except that of unbelief, or that grace once received is not lost through any other sin however grievous and enormous except by that of unbelief, let him be anathema.
Canon 29. If anyone says that he who has fallen after baptism cannot by the grace of God rise again, or that he can indeed recover again the lost justice but by faith alone without the sacrament of penance, contrary to what the holy Roman and Universal Church, instructed by Christ the Lord and His Apostles, has hitherto professed, observed and taught, let him be anathema.
Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened,[132] let him be anathema.
Canon 31. If anyone says that the one justified sins when he performs good works with a view to an eternal reward, let him be anathema.
Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.
Canon 33. If anyone says that the Catholic doctrine of justification as set forth by the holy council in the present decree, derogates in some respect from the glory of God or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ, and does not rather illustrate the truth of our faith and no less the glory of God and of Christ Jesus, let him be anathema.
I'd say cursing folks to hell and putting an order out to kill some folks is a bit judgmental
Thoughts?
The Protestant enterprise would be more respectable if it dealt with the truth and avoided making stuff up. You guys talk all about God's word, but any truth is somehow related to THE Truth, our Lord. And bearing false witness, as one of you is pleased to remind us, is a sin.
I didn't see your particular name in there. The question is how do you know personally that you are saved. How do you know that those verses apply specifically to you the individual? Are you like the Mormons with a burning in the bosom? Or are you like a majority of Calvinists, Gnostic, in knowing that this is what is?
What about" the gates of hell and all that jazz??" How can a church led by the Holy Spirit be deceived.. scripture says the "Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth"
Gee you can not eve because they picked the right one can you??
Correct. That is wise. The doctrines of the Church are the doctrines of God. Not anyone sober enough to cast a ballot for any fool idea that appeals to them. God is not democratic. God IS. Voting on the Creator is not binding upon Him. Or His Church. You guys can vote upon any thing that appeals to you. That doesn't matter whatsoever. The Church, on the other hand, matters.
Definition of parrot: One who imitates the words or actions of another, especially without understanding them.
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