Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Cronos]

No Protestant believes in baptismal regeneration
Really? Then why do orthodox Lutherans believe that original sin is handled in baptism. Hence, as a gospel-word and promise, "baptism doth save." They are very objective and literalistic here.

And, how can you have infant baptism? Baptists are against that

[Cronos]

The fact remains that your question was wrong -- Annalex said "a Catholic is instructed to examine his conscience before presenting himself for Holy communion", to which you said "Interesting. So here the Roman Catholic is to trust his conscience, but the Protestant who believes in Jesus Christ is not to trust in or rely on his conscience. " ---> apples and oranges:

Annalex says about examining your concience prior to Holy communion and you ask a question about some trusting their conscience to follow the teachings of Machen like the OPC does and to make Machen some kind of demi-god if not God.
Why DO Machenites in the OPC believe that Baptists are wrong? And they also disagree with Branch Davidians on beliefs and Luherans and Arminians on episcopality or theology.

Finally, why does the OPC believe in Theonomy, that only the OPC should be allowed as state religion and others should receive capital punishment?

And you use WIKIPEDIA to argue OPC doctrines?

[Cronos]

So, you say the Orthodox Presbyterians just consider Machen a saint now, not a demi-god?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Church (the Catholic Church) doesn't pray to any images

lol. A few months ago there was a thread where several (honest) Roman Catholics stated that of course they prayed to Mary and to saints.

Your church's prayers to Mary and to saints have been posted on the forum hundreds of times. Particularly the ones that ask Mary to help the supplicant in some way, to bless them and yes, even to forgive them.

Blasphemy.

[Cronos]

So, Saint Machen (according to the Orthodox Presbyterian group that he created) formed the "conservative" branch of the Presbyterians? Then, how come the OPC had a break-away group under Carl McIntire that formed the Bible Presbyterian C (the BPC)

Strangely enough the BPC then split in 1955 to become the Evangelical Presbyterian C (the EPC), which then merged with the REformed Presbyterian C (RPC) to become the RPC, Evangelical Synod (RPCES?). And then, the BPC had another split to form the APC (American Presbyterian...)

Which of these factions consider MAchen a saint, which consider him a demi-god and which consider him wrong? Or do they all subscribe to all theories?

[caww]

My beliefs and faith does not rest on what the “Early Church Fathers” may or may not have encouraged or stated. Btw, I have only one Father and He is God.

I would assume each Church/denomination and their branches have their own ideas of who those church fathers would be as well.

[wardaddy]

dang what a bloodbath this thread must be

(from a proddie)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You never asked a question about praying TO an image.

That is an idiotc falsehood. Is the RC tactic to simply repeat a lie ad nauseum, hoping to win a point through exhaustion?

You even repeated my post, yet you deny the words in black and white.

Dr.E - Post # 921 "Nowhere in Scripture does God command anyone to construct a statue or graven image and kneel to that image in prayer."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Secondly, in The Church, we don't pray TO an image, we don't consider images to be God or God to be contained in them

It doesn't matter who you think you're praying to if it's someone other than the Triune God. If that's the case, it's a waste of time, at best and more likely a sin.

Pagans didn't necessarily bow down and pray to the tree trunk itself; they prayed to what they thought was the spirit of that tree trunk.

So RCs have no defense when they say they don't pray to a statue. It's the fact RCs are praying to anyone other than the Triune God that condemns their actions.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

So now you're simply repeating your previous posts which I've already answered.

Forgetfulness is a bad sign. Have a reputable doctor check that out.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Only you called Machen a demi-god.

But you're right. Machen most certainly is one of God's saints, just like all Christ's flock.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Most of those offshoots were about ordaining women.

However, the truth of Christ risen is preached in every one of them.

And every prayer in all those denominations is directed to the Triune God alone.

Pity Rome can't say the same.

[Mad Dawg]

Maybe because they are taught they should ask Mary to Pray for them at an early age and thereafter reinforced by the church in their doctrines, I would guess

Convert here. Became Catholic at the age of 46. Zero Marian piety in my growing up home.

I’d much rather a live person pray for me and or with me as it’s then two way communication...

Well, we believe she is alive. "He is the god of the living, for all live to Him."

And as for "two way communication," well, I'm beginning to think a lot of people don't know what they're missing.

[Mad Dawg]

Just to flog this horse one more time (I think I saw something moving ...)

My MIL is a strong intercessor. She's not Catholic. I don't even understand why some people are strong intercessors except that I know she spends a lot of time in prayer.

When I remark upon that to her, it's not like (or only in a jocular way like) "Wow, you sure have the mojo." It's way more, "Thank you for caring, and LOOK what God did!"

Check it out. A very different appraoch to life and prayer, I know.

[caww]

Look with all due respect if you want to believe that what ever entity you’re communicating with is Mary or One of the Saints who have died, that’s certainly your choice.

...And I’m certain there are alot of people who are extremely grateful for not being enticed to that ‘form’ of communication, and are missing nothing at all.

Suffice it enough and more than plenty we choose to communicate with Christ alone.

[caww]

The “it” is creepy to say the least.

[Cvengr]

Again, if acting independently of faith through Him, they are missing the target. If Gandhi or Muhammed Yunus of Bangladesh failed to have faith THROUGH Christ, then they might perform a worldly good, but their spiritual good would not meet the standards which have made known to us by God, for there is only ONE name under heaven by which we may be saved and that is of our Lord Christ Jesus.

When Lucifer became Satan, remember he was the greatest of all cherubim, but still fell when he sought to become as the greatest.

[Cvengr]

The rewards at the bema seat are those which have been made in eternity past by the Father. The Son acts as an escrow agent, awarding those to believers who performed through faith in Him.

If not through faith in Him, then they have been performed independent of God’s Plan, similar to Lucifer becoming Satan declaring his 5 “I wills”, seeking to emulate God and set himself as God, resulting in the fall.

Good and evil have not yet been judged as all sin has been judged on the Cross, but will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

[Cvengr]

The faith I have is in Christ as the Chief Cornerstone and head of the body, the Church, not a group of believers placing their priority of faith upon Peter.

[Mad Dawg]

You guys are so funny!

Of course it's "creepy." It's a realm of thought and experience shared by millions around the world and yet very different from the one you consider normative. I used to find it creepy too.

He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

And I love the haughty condescension of

Look with all due respect if you want to believe that what ever entity you’re communicating with is Mary or One of the Saints who have died, that’s certainly your choice.

Oh good. So it's okay with you. I have your permission, or at least your acknowledgment that I may believe something you do not. I can't tell you what a relief that is to me. Largely because it is no relief at all, since there wasn't a problem to be relieved, my not knowing I needed your okay.

Maybe I should point out that it is your choice to believe whatever YOU want as well.

Now that we've given each other permission, maybe we could look at that argument? Would that be okay?

You conjectured that people come to pray to the Mother of the Word because they are taught they should ask Mary to Pray for them at an early age ... .

So, carelessly assuming that you knew it was my choice to have another opinion, and thinking that we were engaged in something resembling a rational process, I thought it germane to point out an instance which contradicted your conjecture.

And then, since you assumed that Mary is dead, I thought it might be relevant to point out that reasonable people believe what our Lord taught, that God is the God of the Living for all live to Him. (You will find that in the New Testament, in Luke's gospel, if you exercise your choice to look.) And since Mary is part of "all", it might contradict Scripture to speak of her as "dead" in any spiritually meaningful way.

So have a nice day exercising your choice to communicate with Christ alone. Does that mean that we won't be hearing from you again or were you exercising your choice to speak loosely?

No, seriously, a blessed Sunday to you.