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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Quix; HarleyD

More Catholic bashing by some Jewish folks. < /sarc>


2 posted on 01/03/2010 11:03:03 AM PST by Gamecock (We always have reasons for doing what we do.)
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To: Gamecock
Pius’s rare references to the mass murder of the Jews were invariably veiled and very abstract, as if he found it difficult to utter the word itself. Was it fear of further German reprisals? A latent anti-Semitism? Was it his visceral anti-Communism which also led him to hope for a Nazi victory in the East? Or perhaps the desire to spare German Catholics a conflict of conscience between their loyalty to Hitler, the fatherland, or their church? Whatever the reasons, this was hardly heroic conduct.

Not directly mentioned here is the fact that Hitler was nearly as anti-Catholic as he was anti-Jew.

A few thousand Catholic Priest died at the hands of the Nazis.

Even before the Germans occupied Italy the Fascist Mussolini was putting pressure on the Vatican was not to speak against the German dictator.

The Vatican was in occupied territory. The Pope’s first duty is the survival of the church. Second is the safety of his flock. The Pope could not afford to antagonize Hitler.

As the author states Pius XII was a ‘polished diplomat’ as all heads of state must be. He knew his country was at the mercy of its occupiers. He did what he judged he could do and tried to survive.

Do not judge lest you be judged.

6 posted on 01/03/2010 11:39:33 AM PST by Pontiac
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To: Gamecock
This kind of malevolent idiocy surfaces from time to time despite an abundance of facts against it. Commentary magazine, which is published by the American Jewish Committee, has repeatedly defended Pope Pius XII.

A number of points deserve mention:

(1) Pius XII spoke out against the Nazis and Holocaust, so much so that Hitler wanted to have him taken prisoner or killed. Fortunately, the German general in command in Italy declined to carry out Hitler's order.

(2) At the direction of Pope Pius XII, the Catholic Church made extraordinary efforts that saved many thousands of Jews at the risk of lethal retaliation against Catholic clergy and faithful. Because of those efforts, only 8,000 Jews were taken from Italy by the Nazis, and as many as 860,000 Jews were saved.

(3) During the war, American Jewish leaders kept quiet about the Holocaust for fear of spurring Hitler to ramp up killing of Jews and handing him a propaganda line that the war all about the Jews. Similar considerations restrained Allied leaders.

(4) At great cost and risk, thousands of Jews were sheltered in Vatican City and at the Pope's summer residence. This was done on Pius's direct instructions.

(5) In 1943, a German commander in Rome demanded 100 pounds of gold or 300 Jews would be taken. With the Jewish community able to raise only 70 pounds, Chief Rabbi Zolli asked for and was promptly granted an audience with Pope Pius. The Chief Rabbi was informed that the balance of 30 pounds of gold would be provided from sacramental vessels. And so it was done.

(6) In June,1944, Pius's intervention with Admiral Horthy of Hungary halted the planned deportation of 800,000 Jews.

(7) Immediately after the war, Jewish leaders publicly and privately praised what Pius and the Catholic Church did on behalf of the Jews. Many Jews even converted to Catholicism -- including Chief Rabbi Zolli.

(8) Albert Einstein no less stated that "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty." (9) There is no reason to think that more direct criticism from Pius XII would have deterred Hitler and the Nazis from killing Jews. And,

(10) The attacks on Pope Pius XII were hatched by the KGB during the Cold War. The play "The Deputy" was in fact a ghost written concoction for that purpose.

18 posted on 01/03/2010 12:53:46 PM PST by Rockingham
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To: Gamecock
More Catholic bashing by some Jewish folks. < /sarc>

Yes, some Jews are as anti-Catholic as you are. Including, it seems, this guy.

At issue was the silence of Pius XII during the Holocaust and his indirect complicity in the Nazi mass murder of Jews. These allegations, which first emerged around 1964

Notice, he doesn't say where these "allegations" emerged from. For the record, they originated in a work of fiction--a play written by a communist. A slander, really.
25 posted on 01/03/2010 1:12:25 PM PST by Antoninus (The RNC's dream ticket: Romney / Scozzafava 2012)
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To: Gamecock
More Catholic bashing by some Jewish folks. < /sarc>

Fixed that for you.

If you have nothing nice to say.....

37 posted on 01/03/2010 2:50:40 PM PST by GCC Catholic (0bama, what are you hiding? Just show us the birth certificate...)
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To: Gamecock

Hmmmmm

Perhaps the RC’s/Vatican affiliates could give us lessons in

—thin skins

—hyper reactionary-ism

—hair trigger hostility and expression thereof

—lots of other institutionalized hogwash.


40 posted on 01/03/2010 3:10:25 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Gamecock; Quix; the_conscience; blue-duncan; Iscool; P-Marlowe; xzins; Dutchboy88; ...
Great thread, Gamecock.

Let's hope everyone who posts to this thread actually reads the article that begins this thread so as to better understand the truth of the past or else they may be condemned to repeat the sins of the past.

149 posted on 01/04/2010 11:13:19 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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