Posted on 12/16/2009 7:38:57 AM PST by PanzerKardinal
A "Progressive" Anglican church in Auckland New Zealand paid to have this billboard placed near their parish.
Here are some excerpts written by the Vicar, Archdeacon Glynn Cardy on the church's website touting what he did.
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To make the news at Christmas it seems a priest just needs to question the literalness of a virgin giving birth. Many in society mistakenly think that to challenge literalism is to challenge the norms of Christianity. What progressive interpretations try to do however is remove the supernatural obfuscation and delve into the deeper spiritual truth of this festival.
Christian fundamentalism believes a supernatural male God who lived above sent his sperm into the womb of the virgin Mary. Although there were a series of miraculous events surrounding Jesus’ birth – like wandering stars and angelic choirs – the real miracle was his death and literal resurrection 33 years later. The importance of this literal resurrection is the belief that it was a cosmic transaction whereby the male God embraced humanity only after being satiated by Jesus’ innocent blood.
Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement. If every Christian thought the same not only would life be deadly boring but also the fullness of God would be diminished. This is the consequence of its incarnational theology: God is among us; even among those we disagree with or dislike.
(Excerpt) Read more at stmatthews.org.nz ...
I admit, I only skimmed the article. Having read the article after your admonition, I agree with you. This “church is among the lost.
HOWEVER, forget about the story for a minute, and just look at the picture; the message is: No man can equal GOD! and Jesus is from God!
I'm still trying to figure out why a literal six day creation that concluded just 5769+ years ago is any more irrational than a virgin birth.
I just might have something to do with the fact that we have the earth and, oh the whole rest of the universe, to examine in regard to the facts of its creation. Mary's not around anymore (nor any Jesus DNA) to examine scientifically.
If you can determine from the universe as it exists today that it could not have been created in six days 5769+ years ago because of the uniformitarian assumption, then you must also reject the virgin birth because such things simply don't happen. If you are going to exempt the virgin birth from the uniformitarian assumption, then you must logically exempt the creation of the universe from it as well.
The same uniformitarianism that insists that the natural processes that exist today formed the universe naturally after a single "instant" of supernatural creation must logically insist that J*sus have been conceived and born just like every other human being who has ever lived. Laws of nature, you know.
And this type of “progressive” mentality - if it were back in the day - would be supporting some feminist mob calling for the “compassionate” abortion of God Himself due to Mary’s “unfortunate situation”.
I wonder too just why Jesus had to give His mother to His beloved apostle, John, for care until her death, from the cross itself, at the moment of His own death, IF He had so many “brethren” (or literal, brothers, as interpreted by the other “progressives” here rather than the researched common usage of the term at the time) who would have
naturally had that responsibility, esp. within the Orthodox Jewish Faith. Of course, just as this “preacher” does, apparently others here must, in this matter as well, rely only upon the limitations of the “literal” current interpretations by the skeptics.
Pick and choose your personal area for limiting God’s Holy Will!! It’s in fashion!!
No, Christ is not taught here. What is taught here is a mockery of Christ. And what message of liberation, forgiveness and redemption do any sinners receive in this church? None.
I have no doubt what they receive is a message that affirms their sins. Yes Jesus loves them, but He calls them to repentence so that they may have new life in Him.
Christianity is not just about some nice guy who had some pithy sayings that confounded the ruling classes and who accepted the downtrodden of society. Christianity is about Jesus Christ son of God, second person of the Holy Trinity and His saving death on the Cross. It continues to be a stumbling block. We do no service to anyone if we water down the Truth. This pastor is not giving milk he is feeding lies. Lies which will allow people to continue in slavery.
If this man was honest he would resign his post. For him to continue working for a church is rather like Jimmy Dean working for PETA.
Maybe I just have a dirty mind, but the message I get from that picture us “God f’d Mary good, didn’t he!”
And that just seems disrespectful.
the supernatural obfuscation of Maori creation myths.
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You leave Kupe and his canoe and the big fish alone...
:)
> If I’m not mistaken, it also serves as host to the “Auckland Community Church”, aka, the home of the Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered Community, no?
It certainly provides facilities for that group, yes — there is a sign out front that says so.
> I’ve never been convinced that they’re actually “Christianizing” anybody.
On what basis do you say that? Do you know that congregation first-hand? (I don’t yet, so I am curious).
In any event, fortunately we aren’t the ones who want convincing. Our Lord gets to decide whether they have been Christianized or not. And we are told that we will be surprised at who Christ recognizes as His Own when He returns. On that basis I think it wise to keep an open mind, and to work out our own salvation, with trembling and fear, never minding what the other bloke is doing or not doing.
> I think the bar needs to be raised a little higher than simply putting butts on pews, though.
I think that’s a judgment best left to Our Lord, isn’t it? Else do we not stand the risk identified in the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican, Luke 18:9-14?
The Pharisee had set the bar up pretty high for himself, whereas the Publican merely wanted forgiveness. We know which one Christ was pleased with.
> They may have succeeded but at what price?
Salvation will be the price. Either one way or the other.
Kid I was brought up in a Christian home in New Zealand...
We attended an Anglican Church...
This blasphemeous gimmick is not Christian...
and its not Anglican...
Try again...
Spoken like a true muslim!
However,
"'Let us make Man in our image'; male and female he created them."
God is BOTH male and female, and legend says the same about the Angels (they are both or neither). We humans refer to the Lord as "He" because we do not have a word in our language to properly describe Him.
> Unfortunatly, something vaguely related to Christ is NOT better than nothing.
Says you, but says Christ? Did He not say to his disciples “...Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”? (Luke 9:50)
How does that square with what you’ve just said?
The point is miracles happen. We have all the evidence in the world (literally) that whereas the creation of the Universe may have been a miracle (probably was, as tricks go it's a damn good one), it's not a 6,000-year-old miracle. At this point in time there is no way to tell that the miracle of the Virgin birth happened. Scientific Method working with the Laws of Nature, you know.
> Spoken like a true muslim!
I think you better take that back. I’m happy to debate with you but I will not be insulted.
In Maori mythology, Kupe was the guy who discovered New Zealand.
You may be thinking of Tane.
> Kid I was brought up in a Christian home in New Zealand...
“Granny, I was brought up in a Christian home in Canada...”
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The mere fact that you say so doesn’t make it true.
God certainly does have a sense of humor...We know that from reading the scriptures...
But when this guy talks as an authority about God, what's his authority...He clearly doesn't believe the scriptures...
What does he teach as the plan of salvation??? I suspect that's as garbled as his unbelief in the scriptures...
About all you can say for certain about this man and his church is that they are religious...Religion and Christianity are not the same thing...
As a child I learnt that one of them was out in his canoe ...the South Island...
and caught a big fish ...the North island...
> If this man was honest he would resign his post. For him to continue working for a church is rather like Jimmy Dean working for PETA.
How does that square with Christ’s Own words of Luke 9:50?
“And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”
For your assertion to be right, this pastor would need to be preaching for his flock to oppose Christ. I don’t see evidence of that, do you? If so, where?
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