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To: Zionist Conspirator
Yes, I know the laws of nature very well. That's the whole point. We can examine the earth and come to a very good conclusion that it is way older than 6,000 years. It's probably even older than Helen Thomas. But unless we can examine Mary and/or Jesus' DNA, we can't be sure, scientifically, that He was conceived of a virgin.

The point is miracles happen. We have all the evidence in the world (literally) that whereas the creation of the Universe may have been a miracle (probably was, as tricks go it's a damn good one), it's not a 6,000-year-old miracle. At this point in time there is no way to tell that the miracle of the Virgin birth happened. Scientific Method working with the Laws of Nature, you know.

53 posted on 12/16/2009 8:54:47 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa
Yes, I know the laws of nature very well.

And as a uniformitarian you assume that they have been unaltered and uniform from the first instant of "creation" onward. This means that human children cannot be born to virgin mothers.

That's the whole point. We can examine the earth and come to a very good conclusion that it is way older than 6,000 years.

Yes, assuming that the laws of nature have been uniform from the "singularity" at the "big bang." These laws say that Adam could not have been created by G-d as an adult but must have been born to parents who were themselves descended from generations and generations of evolving ancestors. The same laws say that human virgin females do not give birth. If one did, your assumption that G-d could not have created an adult Adam from dirt 5769+ years ago is in error.

It's probably even older than Helen Thomas. But unless we can examine Mary and/or Jesus' DNA, we can't be sure, scientifically, that He was conceived of a virgin.

So instead you accept it on "faith" while rejecting the chronology of the Torah on the chauvinistic assumption that your religion is superior.

The point is miracles happen.

If they do, then you cannot assume uniformitarianism or the idea that the formation of the universe occurred naturally over long periods of time after an initial "supernatural creation."

We have all the evidence in the world (literally) that whereas the creation of the Universe may have been a miracle (probably was,

If not, it must be eternal and self-existent.

as tricks go it's a damn good one), it's not a 6,000-year-old miracle.

Then I guess Mary didn't give birth as a virgin.

At this point in time there is no way to tell that the miracle of the Virgin birth happened. Scientific Method working with the Laws of Nature, you know

If the "laws of nature" will not allow for the supernatural creation/formation of the universe at the time and within the time frame as narrated in the Torah, then they will not allow for a human "virgin birth" and the idea must be rejected.

63 posted on 12/16/2009 9:12:36 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vaya`an Yosef 'et-Par`oh le'mor bil`aday; 'Eloqim ya`aneh 'et-shelom Par`oh.)
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