Posted on 11/16/2009 5:26:28 AM PST by markomalley
When it comes to porn, the question facing many men is simple: is it really wrong? Is it really that big of a deal? I mean, it's just an image on a screen. It's not someone I know (so it's not lust, right?), or someone I'm having an actual affair with, so I'm still faithful to my wife. It's just sexual release, like masturbation, and we all know that masturbation is not condemned in the Bible. It's not even mentioned. And isn't sex a good thing, so what's wrong in watching it happen? I'm just admiring beauty. And besides, I'm single, so what do you expect me to do with all this pent-up sexual energy? It seems like a safe release until I am married.
I've heard all of this, and more, from men.
So is it really that big of a deal?
Yes, and here's why:
It is sexual sin. Jesus made it clear that when we give in to lust, it is akin the act itself. It makes no difference whether you know the person or not; lust is not tied to relationship.
It is addictive. The ubiquitous nature of porn is new to our culture, and to human sexuality, but it is becoming increasingly clear that it is highly addictive in nature. As a result, it can not only begin to dominate a life, but can demand ever-increasing levels of exposure and ever-increasing degrees of experience to continue to stimulate.
It is degrading to women. In pornography, women are treated as objects. They are not fulfilling God's dream for their life as His precious daughter, nor are they fulfilling His design for sexual expression and fulfillment. You are watching a woman who is being sinned against, treated in a way that is contemptible to her heavenly father (whether she sees it or not - and the fact that many may not only adds to its tragic nature).
It leads to other sins. Studies are beginning to show that the effects of porn on men is more than temporary sexual stimulation: as they see women treated as objects, they begin to treat women that way. They become more sexually aggressive, leading to date rapes and expected "hook-ups."
It harms your relationship with your current, or future, spouse. It is absolutely bogus to say that watching porn enhances a sexual life. Instead, it cheapens it. Porn quickly becomes a substitute for sexual intimacy with your spouse.
It desensitizes your soul. Sin of any kind desensitizes your spiritual life. Continued exposure to a sin such as pornography is like shooting novocaine into your soul. It deadens you and grieves the Holy Spirit in your life, forcing Him to withdraw His utmost filling in a way that diminishes His power and presence in your life.
It distorts sex. "You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act," wrote C.S. Lewis, "that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you came to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? And would not anyone who had grown up in a different world think there was some equally queer about the state of the sex instinct among us?"
I'm a pastor. I talk with men who are dealing with the spiritual torment and guilt of engaging in a sin while trying to rationalize it away; I talk with men who are having to fight it as an addiction; I talk with men who are finding it is leading them to a warped view of women; I talk with men who are experiencing it's direct path to other sins; I talk with men who are seeing its assault on their marriage; I talk with men who are trying to awaken their souls from its deadening grip; I talk with men who have distorted views of what sex is about.
I have a front-row seat to how it's impacting their lives. I don't need to wait for a host of studies. I'm in a living laboratory. So don't tell me it's no big deal.
I know the men who can prove you wrong.
Sources
For help with pornography, as well as accountability software, visit www.xxxchurch.com.
C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity.
I disagree. Alcohol consumption is, at minor levels, socially acceptable, and can even prove to be physically beneficial. But porn at any level just makes a person look like a moronic second-grader giggling over a stolen Victoria's Secret catalog in the little boys room.....immature, pathetic, and incapable of exercising self-control. Not a very positive outcome in my book.
My first husband was a porn addict. It started with the usual Playboy magazine, but then he moved on to increasingly more expensive and time consuming materials and activities.
When I finally left him, he was literally spending thousands of dollars a year on porn materials, visiting massage parlors and XXX rated movie theaters during his work hours, and jeopardizing his career. He went away for 2 weeks once to National Guard traing and came home with scabs and open sores on his penis due to the irritation of his frequent masturbation. He absolutely refused to believe that his behavior was in any way abnormal, and that **I** was somehow unbalanced and being unreasonable.
Some years later I remarried and have been married to a wonderful man for 27 years. I testify that there is a very big difference between a loving relationship and one in which I was and object used as an extension of an addiction.
It is my belief that in some people ( men and women) that porn releases endorphins that are powerfully addictive. We have taught our children to avoid porn completely. While some do not seem to become addicted ( as with alcohol and drugs), others do.
So it’s not ok to look at pornography with your wife? All of it is bad? How about if you don’t see your wife for a year because you’re deployed? Just go cold turkey the whole year? Is masturbation with pornography bad or is it ok if you just masturbate with your eyes closed? Which one sends you to hell? Or is it both?
Who’s talking about going to hell? I never brought it up. No pun intended, but if its what you want, knock yourself out. Just know that you run some personal risks (hell not being one of them!).
Hey, you drug God into this.
Free will is an illusion, even for an atheist. At it’s base level we are shaped by our experiences and biologic impulses.
For what it’s worth, this is my response:
In God’s eyes, I don’t believe it is ok to view pornography with or without your wife. There will be lust as a result which is against God’s word. I say this with no hint of self righteousness as I have given in to the temptation.
If a spouse was away for an extended time, or even if they were home and not “in the mood”, I don’t believe masturbation with thoughts of your spouse is against God’s will.
Personally, I don’t think anyone can go cold turkey for a whole year (or longer in the case of priests, for example— but that’s another topic) I believe we are made sexual beings with urges that need to be fulfilled on occasion.
To deny that, is to deny a part of our existence. If it is not fulfilled in a healthy way, it will often be fulfilled in an unhealthy way as we have seen in the media so often.
And what's this stuff about an intellectually challenging conversation? Women like discussing Jane Austen and the like, but I'd hardly call that anything more than intellectual fluff. A discussion about physics, technology, military theory would be intellectually challenging but I don't think too many women are "lusting" after that.
Surely you left the sarc. tag off your reply. Either that, or I just can’t recognize a joke today. Pixels on a screen certainly CAN be brought into a relationship as surely as a “real live person” can. My overall point was to turn the tables, or put the shoe on the other foot, as it were. Regardless, I stand by what I said and am off to other chores.
I did not see the author make any recommendations as far as criminal sanctions were concerned, nor claim any political affiliations. This was about what pornography does to the soul, not about whether it should be legal or illegal.
Remember the greatest gift god gave us all: FREE WILL.
Disagree. Eternal life and salvation were the greatest gifts.
You haven't made a "shoe on the other foot comparison", the two situations you're comparing are apples and oranges. I'm sorry, you've obviously been hurt personally in some way by this issue, and for that you have my sympathy. You must realize, though, that is it is compromising your objectivity on the issue.
> Are there degrees on sin?
I can’t see how there could be, if we accept Holy Writ at face value. We are told that “the wages of sin is death.” Little sins, big sins, frequent sins or one-off sins: death is what you get if you sin.
Had Our Lord sinned — even once, even a tiny sin like uttering “Dammit!” when hitting his thumb with a hammer, as all carpenters do — he would have been blemished and would have therefore been an unacceptable Sacrifice: recall that in the Old Testament the sacrificial lamb had to be without blemish, perfect in every way.
What about the so-called “unforgivable sin” that Our Lord talks about — the “Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost”? What about that? Isn’t that a “worse” sin than the others?
In my view, yes-and-no: it becomes self-evident and logical: Atheism is the “unforgivable sin”, the “Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost”. Why? By definition.
If you are an Atheist you do not believe in God. Therefore you cannot and will not ask him for forgiveness. You therefore Blaspheme against the Holy Ghost because you do not believe in God’s power to forgive. That can only change when you cease being an Atheist. For as long as you continue in that state, you cannot be forgiven.
So, all sin is equal. In my view this is because God wants our obedience, not our sophistry. If there were a sliding scale of sin, then we would be tempted to apply sophisticated logic to rationalize it. He doesn’t want us to be clever with casuistry: He wants us to do what He tells us, to be obedient. Period.
We are told that He wants” obedience rather than sacrifice”, and for us to “harken” rather than to give Him “the fat of rams”. We should therefore take what He has said at face value.
Those are my thoughts. What do you think?
Sheesh! Let’s give psycholanalysis of me a rest. Last I checked, this forum is for expression of ideas and opinion. I don’t jump on others about their viewpoints, and I will continue to share my own. No, I haven’t “obviously been hurt personally” blah, blah, blah. Quite the contrary. I’ve been amazingly blessed. You don’t know me, my background, perspective, or beliefs. So go ahead and have the last word. I’m through with this particular thread.
You are 100% correct...
“Disagree. Eternal life and salvation were the greatest gifts.”
Maybe so, but you can’t prove it. You can have faith and believe this, but no one really knows until you’re dead.
Free Will, on the other hand, you can exercise every day. There’s no faith or proof involved.
I think God has more to worry about than someone looking at naked people in the privacy of their home with their wife.
I think if you hit your thumb with a hammer and yell “dammit” that’s not even the slightest equivalent “sin-wise” as killing someone.
If God is almighty as most believe, creator of the heavens and Earth and the whole universe, omniscient and all knowing etc...why would he need the obedience of us puny mortals? Is he insecure?
You’re telling me he has a place in the lake of fire for people who curse after a painful accident right next to a serial killer?
Furthermore, he may be a loving god, but he certainly likes to spread the misery around his big blue marble - abject poverty, mass murder, horrible wars and natural disasters, child-rapists, serial killers, muslim fanatics that murder innocents, disease, Obama, etc...
Finally, the thought that any mortal could even begin to understand “god’s plan” or attempt to explain it in any way is just foolish.
So...Try and be good to your fellow man. Follow the golden rule. If cursing on occasion, or looking at porn on occasion means a seat by the lake of fire pool, I guess it’s going to be hot down there.
Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Galations 5
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
What about Onan?
Devil's advocate: Though suppose they mainly utilized it together, strictly within their marriage? What if it could bring husband and wife closer together, much as in the sense that Biblical polygamy often undoubtedly did on at least some occassion? Porn is often marketed in this fashion. "Marital Aid".
Again, you used the word, mainly.
> I think God has more to worry about than someone looking at naked people in the privacy of their home with their wife.
That’s interesting but not overly relevant. What does God think? He tells us in the Bible what He thinks, if only we pay attention and find out.
> I think if you hit your thumb with a hammer and yell “dammit” that’s not even the slightest equivalent “sin-wise” as killing someone.
Again, what you think is interesting, but it is what God thinks that counts. He says “the wages of sin is death”. He doesn’t suggest that there might be time off for good behavior, and He doesn’t provide much room for plea bargaining. Big sin, little sin — it’s all sin and it is all treated the same way.
> If God is almighty as most believe, creator of the heavens and Earth and the whole universe, omniscient and all knowing etc...why would he need the obedience of us puny mortals? Is he insecure?
Why does that matter? Perhaps we are His hobby — why do you “need” your roses to bloom in your garden? The answer may be as simple as “because our obedience gives Him pleasure”. If so, that is a fair answer. We’re not told why, and it really doesn’t matter anyway. It is enough that He says He wants it.
> You’re telling me he has a place in the lake of fire for people who curse after a painful accident right next to a serial killer?
Yup. I think that is what God is telling you. Sin is bad, He doesn’t want any of it. He also provides a way to be forgiven of sin, so you don’t have to take your place in the “lake of fire”, but if you choose not to be forgiven...
> Furthermore, he may be a loving god, but he certainly likes to spread the misery around his big blue marble - abject poverty, mass murder, horrible wars and natural disasters, child-rapists, serial killers, muslim fanatics that murder innocents, disease, Obama, etc..
You have God mixed up with Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. He never promised to provide us with a trouble-free life or even to be always-benevolant. Much of the misery in this world is caused by evil men and not by God. Why are you holding Him accountable for that?
> Finally, the thought that any mortal could even begin to understand “god’s plan” or attempt to explain it in any way is just foolish.
It’s not at all foolish if He has spelled it out for you in plain English in the Bible — which He has done. It is, however, foolish to ignore such guidance as He has given.
> So...Try and be good to your fellow man. Follow the golden rule. If cursing on occasion, or looking at porn on occasion means a seat by the lake of fire pool, I guess it’s going to be hot down there.
Guess so.
Are you a parent? Just curious.
Say your son drops a glass of milk in the kitchen and yells “dammit!”
Now say the same son is implicated in a gang rape of a cheerleader in the boys locker room.
Same level of sin in yours and god’s eyes?!
Give me a break dude.
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