How to testify

Yeah, just one thing, he's not a Mormon, he's an anti Mormon... Just thought you'd want to know.

Well... I want to know LOTS of stuff, but information seems to be holding back these days.

I drop my request for wanting to know how JS "learned'... for the info on HOW one 'knows' that the fellow is an ANTI??

Was it something he's SAID or DONE?

The Lds church in 2007 publications is still ensuring that 1994 Ensign quotes like this one from Lds President Howard W. Hunter gets full play -- first inserting words from a praise hymn to Joseph Smith in the Mormon hymnal directly prior to Hunter's words so that a full hymnal context could not be lost upon the reader:

Praise to the Man!

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

(I just don't get it; perhaps you can unravel this Mormon maze for me?)

Twisty little passages: all different...

I guess THIS fellow was a PROPHET; too!

1890: Manifesto (a statement denouncing polygamy)

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

Too bad it did NOT make it as SCRIPTURE!!

Oh; WAIT!

It DID!!

mormonic placemarker with little gold horn

Welcome to the ongoing discussion with members
of the cult of mormonism. It is an amazing journey.

Thank you for the welcome, but I've been here before. I know what is going on.

You say potato, and I say 'tater.

I said nothing. I merely pointed out that all the translations translate the KJV word "Godhead" into "divine nature"

If you don't like it, take it up with Scripture. Scripture is not opinion.

Scripture is not opinion.

Well for us, yes.

For some even the comment that water is wet or the Earth is round is a matter of opinion...

Mormon maze
____________________________________

Mormon maze, mormon mice...

It fits ...

“Scripture is not opinion”

True. But the interpretation thereof often is. Why do you think Christianity can't all agree on some of the most basic fundamentals of the gospel such as faith vs. works, women in the priesthood, heaven & hell, & most recently gays in the priesthood, etc., etc.?

If you have THE truth, if you belong to THE true church of God, please share it w/ all of us & show definitively why your opinion of the truth is correct & other Christians are so wrong.

If you have THE truth, if you belong to THE true church of God, please share it w/ all of us ...

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. (Acts 16:31)

The other points you mentioned are not fundamentals, but doctrine. It doesn't matter (really) what "level" you are, how "mature" you are as a Christian. What matters is that you are on the right road, going in the right direction. Your position on that road doesn't matter.

I'm not sure you really answered my question, but I appreciate your opinion. Have a good one FRiend.

I'm not sure you really answered my question,...

I'm sorry. I thought I did....

Have a good one FRiend.

You too.

It doesn't matter (really) what "level" you are, how "mature" you are as a Christian.

I guess I oughta clarify that one. It doesn't matter what denomination you are, either--as long as you believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation.

Baptist, Presbyterians, Methodist, etc. The differences are mainly doctrinal, not fundamental.

Personally, I'm not a member of any of those. I'm non-denominational.

ShadowAce, I thought you did too.

Reno -

Faith. Where do you place your faith. Is it in Christ? Or is it in the works and ordinances of your organization. Be careful. It is THE most important question.

None of us who are Christian on this thread share a common denomination (that I know of), yet we all walk the same path - the path of faith in Christ, period. Some of us may stumble upon the pebble that is called “women in authority,” or “gays who continue to lead while continuing in sin.” Yet we all have the same goal of Christ to reach on that path.

You my friend Reno, are on a different path. In Mormonism the goal is in your own exaltation. The goal is eternal family. The goal is in authority and judgment. Put your eyes on Christ, your faith that HE saves you and to be in Him is all you ever need - He fulfills your every desire. All the rest of our man-made confusion is a stumbling stone - it causes one to take your eyes off Him who is the end of the path. Instead you focus on your own two feet and where they are leading you. Self focus is a sin.

Do you see the difference?

It does not mean what you have stated it to mean.

You are correct in pointing out incorrect interpretation and usage of "Godhead"
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

First "dwell" (katoikeō)which means to inhabit, dwell within.
"all the fullness" (pas plērōma) all - the totality, everything, to its fullness, completely filled.
"Godhead/Deity" (theotēs) the state of being God.

Du will dance around trying to obscure that mormonism is polytheistic, but this verse does not support polytheism, particularly where the mormon committee called the 'godhead' is concerned. The greek here makes it very clear that everything, in its totality that is God resides within Jesus. A mormon god with flesh and bone cannot reside at the same time within another body of flesh and bone (according to mormon definition of what a god is). This passage, even out of context, denies mormon polytheism. However, within context, it does even greater damage. 1:15 Jesus is the exact image of God (not a three headed committee). 1:16-17 Jesus created ALL things, Jesus is not our 'spirit brother' but God.
In Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; - all divine power resides in Christ. The Greek word translated "dwell" (katoikesai) means to dwell permanently. That is difficult for a flesh and bone 'god' to accomplish who is part of a committee.

Please tell me where the definition of the Trinity shows up in one place in the scriptures. You can't the Trinity is an interpretation of the scriptures.

mormons will be unable to tell you where in the bible there are the mormon temple ordinances, word of wisdom, and a plethora of other mormon doctrines. That the bible is consistent in refering to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - though three as collectively as the singular God - within the context of Jewish monotheism.

This is why it's so disingenuous for antis (and I mean of every religion, not just of mine) to try to tear down another religion that has a differing interpretation from theirs.

This is called projecting. 50,000 mormon missionaries go out each day and tear down other religions. In fact, the lds church has legacy of bashing Christians and Christianity. What is often opposed here is the fact that correct biblical interpretation and understanding are used here to counter mormon counterfeits and deliberate redefinitions of words and phrases - as you correctly identified by the incorrect mormon definition of 'Godhead'.

Don't go out in public and challenge them to prove their interpretation, don't call them sinners and damn them to Hell. They just have another interpretation than you.

Again, mormonism is dishonest in making this appeal against counter-mormon prosletizing. Again, that is what their missionaries do every single day. Lurkers can clearly see the hyprocracy of the statement.

Give it a rest, Jesus does not want contention among the people who believe on his name, quite the reverse, in spite of our differences in interpretation of the Bible, all Christians should get along as well as the different factions of say the Buddhists.

Mormon prophets, as recently as the late Hinkley, have made it very clear that

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. . . . (Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7). Thank you prophet hinkley for making it clear that you worship a different Jesus - and by doing such incures God's wrath -

Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Please show where Joseph Smith was in either of my definitions as equal to Jesus Christ...

He may have you there svcw, smith himself said he was greater than Jesus was, not equal.

If you can't see the difference between missionary work and the specific targeting of a religion to hound, then I can't make you see it either.

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." - Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

Nah, not joey specifically targeting a religion to hound. . .

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest. - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

What, some other 'christian' group attacking Christians, say it is not so mormons.

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.” - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375. Sorry to info you Elsie - mormonism still calls you an apostate, even though you were never a mormon.

You are correct. Man, I messed that up didn’t I. Thanks for setting me straight.

CF: Are you serious?

Yes, but I joke around a lot too.

CF: You think pre-Gutenberg printed records will drop out of the sky, or be dug up etched in golden plates in Hill Cumorahs all over the world?

Luke 18:26-27

26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

The problem is, we have been commanded, I don't know how, I don't need to know everything, I just know I'm supposed to get started, so I have. My family has four lines back to Adam, once you get to Noah, it's pretty easy.

You will say this is an impossible task, I will quote 1 Nephi 3:7

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

You question my seriousness and my sanity because you are thinking "arm of the flesh" how are you going to do this. I move forward in faith saying God knows how I will do this thing he has commanded me to do, therefore, I will start, he'll tell me what I need to know when I need to know it.

CF: Now what's wrong with this statement?
(1) It negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement"
(2) It creates a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"
(3) In light of what I said above -- the vast majority of Dark Ages & before will never have their records found, how can the Lds church turn around and say this is MANDATED for EVERY spirit before they can be judged? Joseph Smith taught that "ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. (Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)
(4) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone cue the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248) [Yeah, all: Think of The Addams family performing ghoulish eternal wedding rituals for the dead]
(5) It treats mere men as "saviors" -- what Reaganaut just noted in what you said: WOW. Finally an admittance that they consider themselves to be Saviors, just like their prophets taught.

Hebrews 9:27 does not say how long afterwords, nor that it is immediate. It says "After". Revelations 20:7-15 explained the time frame a bit better:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Let's pay close attention to the time-line here, The thousand years of Satan's imprisonment on earth are over, so that's what we Mormons call the millennium and then everyone is judged. By Jesus (not Joseph, he's testifying, so is everyone for that matter) Hell gives up her dead. what exactly does that mean? it means Hell is not forever, why then you might ask is it called eternal punishment? It is called eternal punishment because it is God's punishment and one of his name, you guessed it is Eternal. That's why as I mentioned earlier in this thread David could say "Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hell" because he understood this doctrine.

Now you have asked about records and claimed that we can never perform all the work, also in verse twelve, it talks about Books of records being kept in Heaven. If you have modern day revelation, there is always a way to get a record. also important, is that the dead will be judged "according to their works". Hey, it's in the Bible, I didn't write it, don't shoot the messenger, it's in the Bible.

next point, the Devil's charge card, you know, sin now, pay later? It's a really bad plan because the interest is a killer. How exactly do you for example kick a drug addiction that you developed with a body and now you are a spirit with all the same cravings? You want to know what hell is? It's people trying to repent now that they are dead of stuff they did while they were alive. I'm not sure it's not possible, but it's definitely the hard row to hoe.

Last point, everyone here who is trying to teach others to come to Christ, even the antis who think they are helping me, or other Mormons, by damning us to hell and trying to shock us out of our faith, are trying to be saviors. The Good Samaritan, was a savior. the guy who stops by the side of the road to help with a flat tire is a savior. A savior saves, from trouble, form sin, from ignorance. there is on one Savior, the Savior is Jesus Christ, we are not confused, we don't think we are him, we need him just as much, maybe more sometimes, than those we are trying to help. You guys are tying to make us trying to be like Jesus into a bad thing. IT just is silly, and it show a lack of reasonableness that is not going to win you many "saved" souls.

then you cut a bunch of stuff out of context. We are indeed the only church that knows how to perform proxy baptisms, will that wash away the sins of those dead who died with a sinful heart? No. It will allow those who lived a just life and never knew the gospel to accept the ordinance and move forward into God's rest. We know how to confirm, by proxy, the dead into Jesus' church, allowing those worthy souls who are otherwise damned to move forward yet again. We are again the only church who understand these ordinances, why wouldn't we be called the saviors of the dead? are we not allowing them to as verses 12 and 13 say be judged according to their works, and not according to the ordinances that were available to them? "Orthodox Christianity" would damn all who died without the opportunity to be baptized to hell.

Antis of all faiths try to present their doctrines as "weird" or as "opposing the Bible" with Mormonism it should be easy, we have the Book of Mormon for crying out loud. You should be able to find places where out doctrines just are unsupportable form anywhere int he Bible, and you can't or at least have not. IMHO if I were a non member, the thing that would be most amazing to me is how many of our doctrines a) make sense b) are supported, just in scriptures I hadn't read or thought about before.

I've got a busy day today, I'll try to respond to everybody (It's hard to be popular sometimes...) but if I don't get back to you for a while, don't be offended.