CF:
Are you serious?
Yes, but I joke around a lot too.
CF:
You think pre-Gutenberg printed records will drop out of the sky, or be dug up etched in golden plates in Hill Cumorahs all over the world?
Luke 18:26-27 26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
The problem is, we have been commanded, I don't know how, I don't need to know everything, I just know I'm supposed to get started, so I have. My family has four lines back to Adam, once you get to Noah, it's pretty easy.
You will say this is an impossible task, I will quote
1 Nephi 3:7 7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
You question my seriousness and my sanity because you are thinking "arm of the flesh" how are you going to do this. I move forward in faith saying God knows how I will do this thing he has commanded me to do, therefore, I will start, he'll tell me what I need to know when I need to know it.
CF:
Now what's wrong with this statement?
(1) It negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement"
(2) It creates a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"
(3) In light of what I said above -- the vast majority of Dark Ages & before will never have their records found, how can the Lds church turn around and say this is MANDATED for EVERY spirit before they can be judged? Joseph Smith taught that "ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. (Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)
(4) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone cue the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248) [Yeah, all: Think of The Addams family performing ghoulish eternal wedding rituals for the dead]
(5) It treats mere men as "saviors" -- what Reaganaut just noted in what you said: WOW. Finally an admittance that they consider themselves to be Saviors, just like their prophets taught.
Hebrews 9:27 does not say how long afterwords, nor that it is immediate. It says "After".
Revelations 20:7-15 explained the time frame a bit better:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Let's pay close attention to the time-line here, The thousand years of Satan's imprisonment on earth are over, so that's what we Mormons call the millennium and
then everyone is judged. By Jesus (not Joseph, he's testifying, so is everyone for that matter) Hell gives up her dead. what exactly does that mean? it means Hell is not forever, why then you might ask is it called eternal punishment? It is called eternal punishment because it is God's punishment and one of his name, you guessed it is Eternal. That's why as I mentioned earlier in this thread David could say "Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hell" because he understood this doctrine.
Now you have asked about records and claimed that we can never perform all the work, also in verse twelve, it talks about Books of records being kept in Heaven. If you have modern day revelation, there is always a way to get a record. also important, is that the dead will be judged "according to their works". Hey, it's in the Bible, I didn't write it, don't shoot the messenger, it's in the Bible.
next point, the Devil's charge card, you know, sin now, pay later? It's a really bad plan because the interest is a killer. How exactly do you for example kick a drug addiction that you developed with a body and now you are a spirit with all the same cravings? You want to know what hell is? It's people trying to repent now that they are dead of stuff they did while they were alive. I'm not sure it's not possible, but it's definitely the hard row to hoe.
Last point, everyone here who is trying to teach others to come to Christ, even the antis who think they are helping me, or other Mormons, by damning us to hell and trying to shock us out of our faith, are trying to be saviors. The Good Samaritan, was a savior. the guy who stops by the side of the road to help with a flat tire is a savior. A savior saves, from trouble, form sin, from ignorance. there is on one Savior, the Savior is Jesus Christ, we are not confused, we don't think we are him, we need him just as much, maybe more sometimes, than those we are trying to help. You guys are tying to make us trying to be like Jesus into a bad thing. IT just is silly, and it show a lack of reasonableness that is not going to win you many "saved" souls.
then you cut a bunch of stuff out of context. We are indeed the only church that knows how to perform proxy baptisms, will that wash away the sins of those dead who died with a sinful heart? No. It will allow those who lived a just life and never knew the gospel to accept the ordinance and move forward into God's rest. We know how to confirm, by proxy, the dead into Jesus' church, allowing those worthy souls who are otherwise damned to move forward yet again. We are again the only church who understand these ordinances, why wouldn't we be called the saviors of the dead? are we not allowing them to as verses 12 and 13 say be judged according to their works, and not according to the ordinances that were available to them? "Orthodox Christianity" would damn all who died without the opportunity to be baptized to hell.
Antis of all faiths try to present their doctrines as "weird" or as "opposing the Bible" with Mormonism it should be easy, we have the Book of Mormon for crying out loud. You should be able to find places where out doctrines just are unsupportable form anywhere int he Bible, and you can't or at least have not. IMHO if I were a non member, the thing that would be most amazing to me is how many of our doctrines a) make sense b) are supported, just in scriptures I hadn't read or thought about before.
I've got a busy day today, I'll try to respond to everybody (It's hard to be popular sometimes...) but if I don't get back to you for a while, don't be offended.