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Basilica bones are St Paul's, Pope declares after carbon dating tests
Timesonline ^ | June 29, 2009 | Richard Owen

Posted on 06/29/2009 6:42:19 AM PDT by NYer

Pope Benedict XVI said last night that bone fragments found inside the tomb of St Paul in Rome had been carbon dated for the first time, "confirming the unanimous and uncontested tradition that they are the mortal remains of the Apostle Paul".

He said that archaeologists had inserted a probe into the white marble sarcophagus under the Basilica of St Paul's Outside the Walls which has been revered for centuries as the tomb of St Paul.

The pontiff said: "Small fragments of bone were carbon dated by experts who knew nothing about their provenance and results showed they were from someone who lived between the 1st and 2nd century. This seems to confirm the unanimous and uncontested tradition that these are the mortal remains of Paul the Apostle."

The Pope, who said the discovery "fills our souls with great emotion", made the unexpected announcement during Vespers at St Paul's Basilica last night, marking the end of the Pauline year held in honour of the apostle. He said that as well as bone fragments, archaeologists had found grains of red incense, a piece of purple linen with gold sequins and a blue fabric with linen filaments in the tomb.

Cardinal Andrea Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo, the archpriest of St Paul's, said that he had known for more than a year that the tests had shown that the bones were those of a man of the 1st century, but had been sworn to secrecy because it had been "up to the Holy Father to make this public". He said this was why the Vatican press office had denied last week that the bones had been identified. "Only the Pope can make such an important and solemn announcement," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: catholic; cult; godsgravesglyphs; italy; paultheapostle; romancatholicism; rome; saintpaul; stpauloutsidewalls
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

That’s very true about DNA. But how would a person obtain it and how would you know it was St. Paul’s? I’d say there is a 99% chance the remains are those of the saint.


21 posted on 06/29/2009 8:03:25 AM PDT by tob2 (I would rather have a nuclear power plant in my backyard than Gitmo detainees.)
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To: marshmallow

I could be wrong but I thought he was
a Roman (that is an proto-Italian).


22 posted on 06/29/2009 8:14:15 AM PDT by rahbert ("When Democrats are in charge, stupid things happen"..)
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To: Lee N. Field

“Not having a sample of Paul’s DNA, a DNA sample would tells us what? Male. Middle eastern maybe, and not much more than that.

exactly!


23 posted on 06/29/2009 8:16:28 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: gedeon3; marshmallow
Have these tests been evaluated by an independent party? And even so, how can that prove the bones belong to Paul?

Back in the 4th century, they didn't have dna analysis; what they did have was common sense, something most folks lack today. Once the persecution of christians ended, they took the bones of St. Paul, erected a Church and buried his remains, with dignity and respect. No one can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that these bones belonged to St. Paul. It is presumed that those early christians who suffered unmercifully under the Roman empire, safeguarded the bones of this beloved disciple until such time as they could erect a memorial. I suggest you familiarize yourself with Persecution of early Christians in the Roman Empire, for a better understanding of the early Church.

24 posted on 06/29/2009 8:20:41 AM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NC28203
Please. We all know from the Crevo threads that carbon dating isn’t reliable. 8^)

Bravo! But you beat me to it. ;^)

25 posted on 06/29/2009 8:32:35 AM PDT by Constitution Day (Eschew exclamatory abuse.)
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To: NYer
Basilica bones are St Paul's, Pope declares after carbon dating tests
Pope: St. Paul's Remains Found in Basilica
Rome Catacomb Reveals "Oldest" Image of St Paul

Rome Catacomb Reveals "Oldest" Image Of St Paul
Pope: Scientific analysis done on St. Paul's bones
Oldest Icon of St. Paul Discovered
On St. Paul and Justification
On St. Paul and the Second Coming

On St. Paul and the Resurrection
On St. Paul and the Cross
On Paul's Christology
On How St. Paul Knew Christ
St. Paul's Teaching on the Church

On Paul's Dealings With Peter
On Paul and the Other Apostles
On Paul, an Apostle of Christ
St. Paul's Faith Based Not on Conversion of Thought, but Personal Meeting With Christ, Pope Says
Paul's Conversion

[St.] Paul's Biography
On Paul's World and Time Period
Pope Benedict said to plan examination of St. Paul
The Conversion of St. Paul
Remains of St. Paul may have been found

Paul's Teaching on the Church
Vatican archaeologists unearth St. Paul's tomb
Paul's Teaching on the Holy Spirit
Paul of Tarsus, Continued: He Lives From Christ and With Christ
Paul of Tarsus: Be Imitators of Me, As I Am of Christ

HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE FEAST OF SAINTS PETER AND PAUL
St. Paul's Vision
Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul -- January 25
Original Sin According to Saint Paul
St. Paul the Eccentric

26 posted on 06/29/2009 8:32:47 AM PDT by Salvation (With God all things are possible.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Either we believe in carbon dating or we don’t. Since it seems every few years, the Carbon Dating Society (sounds kinda kinky, doesn’t it?) changes their calibrations, I do not believe in carbon dating. I also do not need the Pope to “prove” anything to me. I believe. That is one of the basic tenants of our religion, isn’t it? We just believe. (that is not to say that I don’t question certain things, but those are of a contemporary matter, not these ancient items).


27 posted on 06/29/2009 8:36:06 AM PDT by blu (Last one out of Michigan, please turn off the lights.)
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To: NYer

While this is interesting information, it has no impact on my faith.


28 posted on 06/29/2009 8:41:00 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Lee N. Field

“Not having a sample of Paul’s DNA, a DNA sample would tells us what? Male. Middle eastern maybe, and not much more than that.

Exactly. We cannot KNOW. The Pope simply gave an opinion
that may or may not be correct. Same old same old.


29 posted on 06/29/2009 8:41:44 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: NYer

The bones could be anyones’s since there is no way to identify Paul’s bones as belonging to Paul.


30 posted on 06/29/2009 9:33:19 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Houghton M.

condition of the skeleton would be of interest, as would its contents, but I guess that is asking too much (exhumation).


31 posted on 06/29/2009 10:26:36 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: FateAmenableToChange

Catholics seem to really love old bones and relics.


32 posted on 06/29/2009 10:40:23 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: NYer

And it must be true because the DNA tests are fprth coming. This is the difficulty of having relics


33 posted on 06/29/2009 10:53:21 AM PDT by the long march
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To: DBrow

And how are these remains known? Tradition and oral history are nice enough but please folks this just says we have some bones and they may come from the time of Paul


34 posted on 06/29/2009 10:56:59 AM PDT by the long march
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To: FateAmenableToChange

Amen. If someone really wants to venerate Paul, he should read all the Epistles attributed to him. If you really absorb and honor their content, you are a Christian beyond a doubt. Also, the carbon date indicates someone who lived 100-200 A.D. Paul died before 100 A.D.


35 posted on 06/29/2009 10:58:43 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

There is a test that can be done to measure trace elements found in the body (I think usually from teeth). These trace elements are absorbed into the body from drinking water. Since these trace elements vary from place to place it can fairly reliably determine where the individual came from. If the traces in this body were to match those of people in the area of Tarsus it wold be extremely convincing.


36 posted on 06/29/2009 11:03:07 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

It is evidence consistant with the tradition that Paul’s remains have been interred in the tomb since the first century. That’s not a small thing.


37 posted on 06/29/2009 11:14:27 AM PDT by Havisham
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To: rahbert

Roman citizenship, not birth. Believe he was of the tribe of Benjamin.


38 posted on 06/29/2009 12:11:10 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Straight Vermonter
Only if the water in Tarsus was unique to that area and if can be shown that Paul spent his young life there and if it is known what the water in the area of Tarsus contained at the time Paul was there.

If, if if.........not too convincing.

39 posted on 06/29/2009 12:23:36 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: blu

I definitely believe in Carbon Dating

It may not be for everybody- but a good friend of mine met his new wife this way.

BWAHAHAHA


40 posted on 06/29/2009 12:30:42 PM PDT by will of the people
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