Posted on 04/04/2009 3:29:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.
This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.
Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.
[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]
“Going on visitation involves maybe two or three groups who mostly make phone calls once a week to make sure people are well who didn’t attend. You make it sound like they are the gestapo or something. LOL”
I guess my frame of reference is my own church/denomination. We don’t have phone calls from groups. We have elders who visit in person.
There are limits to how much discipline can be effective. Anyone can be sneaky. The elders are not storm troopers. No one goes through your stuff or checks your email. I am afraid I am giving the wrong impression.
This thread wasn’t started by a Catholic.
What do you think of all the stuff posted that’s critical of LDS? Who posts those threads? Catholics?
“You’re not about worshiping God but worshiping the Catholic Church and the pope!”
Good grief.
Freegards
I tip my hat to your exorbitant purity, to be sure, but the Catholic Church is not a denomination.
You're not about worshiping God but worshiping the Catholic Church and the pope!
You bear false witness against about a billion people with stunning facility.
I bet quite a few people have learned to hate the Catholic Church on the FR Religion Forum, considering its cadre of zealous instructors in that vein.
Let's not cloud this discussion with inconvenient facts.
Reminds me of the movie scenes I saw in "In Quiet Man" where the Priest knew everyone and was able to visit each one for dinner on occasion. I believe the Church compensates for it's size in many many ways but there is that disconnect from the very "top" that I found was a stumbling block for a lot of people.
Speaking of dinner, my great-grandmother cooked three meals a day for all the Priests in Indianapolis everyday of her entire life. Most people had large families to keep them occupied and entertained. A lot of the time I found the Priests to seem lonely. Just my opinion.
I could go on and on about all this forever so I had better get away from here. That said...these differences seem trivial at times and the bottom line..there are so many similarities between the Churches and the people that no one is aware of because they just don't know.
I feel the same way about criticism of LDS. I think people of any religious faith should spend more time bringing atheists to God than converting from one religion to their own.
Dear Marie:2
<<<’So in your Church, everyone is perfect? Right?”
No, Twink. We’ve had people repudiate the faith, fall into alcoholism, commit adultery, and indulge in spousal abuse (probably a lot more than that, too, that I don’t know about).
However, these folks are subjected to church discipline. They are removed from the church membership. While they can still show up, they can’t lead, vote, or take communion.”>>>
Does the foregoing mean your Church has only saints? Didn’ our Lord say He came not for the righteous but for the unrighteous
We were taught, at an RCIA ‘retreat’ of several RCIA groups — to form our own consciences according to what WE believed to be right. The ‘nun’ (in street clothes, obviously liberal, straight from the LA Archdiocese, matched totally with the church where we were doing RCIA) couched her teaching in very ‘reverent’ language.
I had been a Protestant for 20 years at that point, and I recognized this SPEW of hooey. There was no mention of — ‘according to the Bible,’ ‘Jesus would have us,’ ‘the Ten Commandments talk about.’ Everyone dutifully listened. My husband did not even catch it.
I was there at the Lord’s prompting, but it was totally disgusting. (As was the RCIA teaching at this church). It gave me a good glimpse, however, into the BAD catechesis in the CC these days — which is TOTALLY intentional, I believe, much as the propagandizing that goes on in the public schools is.
We are in a cultural battle.
So did the guy who posted this article! LOL.
I thought King James wrote the bible
You must not continue to attack people on a personal level without seeing the bigger picture....frankly it makes you look like a heartless creep. People do need hand holding...even the Priests.
My point is that there is a sense that "the authority" is too far away and out of touch...like it or not, it's true.
A smaller church gives a person a sense of inclusiveness in how their lives will turn out. It's a simple part of human nature that will not be ignored.
Some are asking for answers and as a person with knowledge of how things really work in the Church, I'm trying to give some suggestions.
I don't expect you to agree with my observations nor will you ever be able to wipe them away with excuses.
The left is in an all out assault on ALL churches...if you don't want or need any help, wonderful. I'm glad you all have everything looking rosie.
Of which you're president. lol.
Ah yes, another personal attack from the aptly-named.
I think there are a lot of things wrong with many churches these days.
I’ve pointed out wrongs with my old denomination (the Methodist church). I’ve had enough problems with it that I left it.
How are the problems with the Catholic schools not a reflection of the problems with the Catholic church? The schools are run by the church. It seems to me that if they fixed the problems with the schools it would go a long way at fixing problems in the rest of the church.
Also, considering I looked into sending my son to a Catholic school, but I was turned off by how liberal they were. It had nothing to do with their religious beliefs. It was their liberal attitude. That comes off stronger than anything religious.
I think the Catholic church and a lot of prostestant churches need to go back to their original foundations, the Bible.
Oooh snark!
LOL! That's exactly what it was! I think these awful nuns, fortunately, are dying off or fading away simply because their orders are going out of business. But they and other RCIA types certainly have done a lot of damage to Catholic catechesis.
Ah. Did I hurt your feewings? I sowey.
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