Prophecy Pundits are at it Again

American Vision ^ | February 23, 2009 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

Calvary Chapel of Chino California held “ The Southern California Prophecy Conference” last week (Feb. 20–22, 2009). I wonder if those who came to hear speakers like Tim LaHaye, Mark Hitchcock, Paul McGuire, David Hocking, David Reagan, and Ed Hindson were aware that Chuck Smith, the founder of the Calvary Chapel network of churches, made some very definite predictions about when the “rapture” was going to take place.

While cleaning up my office, I came across a cassette tape of a sermon Chuck Smith preached on December 31, 1979. He told his very accepting audience on that day that the rapture would take place in 1981. The former Soviet Republic going into Afghanistan in August of 1978 was the prelude to what Smith considered to be a full-force invasion of the Middle East. It would not be long before “Russia” would invade Israel, Smith told his audience. All of this was said to have been “predicted” by Ezekiel 2600 years ago.

Smith went on to claim in his end-of-the-year message of 30 years ago that because of ozone depletion Revelation 16:8 would be fulfilled during the soon-coming Great Tribulation: “And the fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.” According to Smith, Halley’s Comet would pass near the earth in 1986 and would wreck atmospheric havoc for those left behind as debris from its million-mile tail pummeled the earth. Halley’s Comet did appear in 1986 with no damage done to our planet. (A similar prelude to the end had been predicted based on the so-called Jupiter Effect.[1]) ...

[raynearhood]

Thank you. I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your waitress.

[topcat54]

Well played, Sir.

[safisoft]

But the nation state Israel is not the Israel of the Covenant of G-d. They are not heirs to the promise. We are. End of story.

History is filled with such blustering. From Nebuchadnezzar to Hilter...

...for if G-d did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either... Romans 11:21

"Have you not observed what this people have spoken, saying, 'The two families which the L-RD chose, He has rejected them'? Thus they despise My people, no longer are they as a nation in their sight. "Thus says the L-RD, 'If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of heaven and earth I have not established, then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.'" Jeremiah 33:24-26

And in case you think you have any hope at in the New Covenant, apart from Israel (literally), you are without hope...

"Behold, days are coming," declares the L-RD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... Jeremiah 31:31

[raynearhood]

History is filled with such blustering. From Nebuchadnezzar to Hilter...

Absurd hyperbole is replied to with:

[raynearhood]

If that is "reading what Scripture plainly says," I would hate to see you parse words.

Whoa, What happened here??? Now there's an odd thing, isn't it...Over there in James, Abraham is NOW justified by works...

What happened is that you quoted Scripture piecemeal, out of order, and out of context in order to squeeze a poorly formulated point from it.

Some people can get to God through Jesus Christ...(in Christ, Christ in you)...Others can get to God but not necessarily through Jesus Christ but 'by' the authority of Jesus Christ...

Why then is it constantly denied that dispensation theology asserts that there is one salvation for the nation state of Israel and another for everyone else.

But then you have to be a dispensationalist to get this...

I suppose one would need to be a dispensationalist to understand it because it makes about as much sense Biblically as the theological prowess displayed earlier in the reply.

I'd say you don't know dispensational theology...

Two things here...Jews will be saved during the Tribulation by faith in Jesus Christ AND good works...They must endure to the end (of the Tribulation, or their untimely death for their belief)...This takes place while the church, the body of Christ is in Heaven attending her wedding and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb...

Oh no, I understand it well enough. You have simply restated what I have asserted in different terms. Still, you say the redemptive work of Christ is not necessary for Jews because they get a "second chance" post rapture.

[Iscool]

Combine them with the anticipated slaughter of millions of Jews and you get ... one ... two ... three stikes ye out.

What...It's the same good works some of you guys and the Catholics believe in over there in Matthew...Where you have to visit people in prison, endure to the end, judgement of the sheep and goats, etc...

I don't know how many Jews and others will be killed during the tribulation...I know Christians will be killed for their testimony in Jesus...

Take a look around you...You don't see the whole world just itchin' to get in there and wipe out Israel??? There is going to be a bloodbath over there in the near East...If you don't know that, you don't believe your eyes, or God...

Another thing you don't seem to get is that God is going to intervene and SAVE THE JEWS...And if you are here during the Tribulation, and do NOT take the mark of the beast, you likely will starve or have your head separated from you body...And thanks to the muzlims, we are all too aware of what that entails...

[Quix]

Have been quite fascinated at going over a list of Scriptures the last 6 months or so . . . how

UTTERLY ABSURD

grandiosely absurd

the preterist REPLACEMENTARIAN position is . . . just straightforwardly, logically, Biblicly. Just amazing.

And then to read such absurd posts hereon by folks who obviously consider themselves to be erudite, logical, smart, theologically astute etc.

. . . it’s INCREDIBLE TO THE MAX . . .

kind of like folks considering OThuga an American suitable to be PRESIDENT!

WHAT ALICE-IN-WONDERLAND ABSURDITIES TO THE MAX!

I keep threatening to compile such a list of Scriptures and just post the Scriptures. Even 1-3 of which would be sufficient to blow out of the water the whole REPLACEMENTARIAN craziness.

When there are dozens and dozens and dozens of verses piling up shredding the preterist REPLACEMENTARIAN position, it gets soooooooooooooooooo absurd that one begins to wonder what happens between the ears of ANYONE who would dare to imagine it otherwise.

I keep coming back to the conviction that some “Christians” are also plagued with the GREAT DELUSIONS of the END TIMES.

Then there’s the aspect of NONE ARE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT . . . . WILL NOT . . . see.

[Quix]

Take a look around you...You don’t see the whole world just itchin’ to get in there and wipe out Israel??? There is going to be a bloodbath over there in the near East...If you don’t know that, you don’t believe your eyes, or God...

---

INDEED.

However . . . when granitized minds . . .

stubbornly willfully blind . . .

see Scripture and newspaper headlines matching up . . .

they just assume they are having a nightmare and dismiss it as from the TWILIGHT ZONE.

Somehow, I think God is most UNamused at their silly folly.

[Iscool]

Still, you say the redemptive work of Christ is not necessary for Jews because they get a "second chance" post rapture.

No, I don't say...The Scripture saith...

Romans 11...

During the Tribulation there will be 144,000 Jews going thru the land witnessing for Jesus...Many will be saved, if they endure to the end (of the Tribulation)...Many will not...

When Jesus shows up, there's going to be lots of killin'...Will everyone die??? No...Will those folks need the redemptive work of Jesus on the Cross??? No...They will have the Almighty God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords standing right there in front of them...They will accept Him as their Messiah or not...

It will take about 7 years to clean up the mess of the battle...Jesus will sit on His throne in Jerusalem for 1000 years, ruling over the Nations with a rod of iron, and be a King to His people...

And that's the conclusion you come to when you believe the words of God instead of calling them symbolic, or a metaphor that you have no idea what they are a symbol of...

[Iscool]

Exactly Quix...

I may not be 100 accurate in my estimation of the scenario that will play out and that’s fine with me...But I know I’m close...

I know these things have not been fulfilled and I know God is not done with Israel...

And I know we better love and watch over the Jews whether we like them or not...

[Quix]

I may not be 100 accurate in my estimation of the scenario that will play out and that’s fine with me...But I know I’m close...

I know these things have not been fulfilled and I know God is not done with Israel...

And I know we better love and watch over the Jews whether we like them or not...

---

ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE.

THIS PROMISE

TO ABRAHAM

IS STILL IN FORCE:

---

I WILL BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS YOU [and your seed]

AND CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE YOU [and your seed].

Clear. Simple.

GOD ALMIGHTY ON RECORD.

HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY . . . NOT HIS WORDS.

AND NO AMOUNT OF PRETERIST REPLACEMENTARIAN
ALICE-IN-WONDERLAND RATIONALIZING, EXTRAPOLATING, INFERRING, ASSUMING, BASTARDIZING, MANGLING, HYPERVENTILATING, . . . .

SUCH ABSOLUTELY DEPENDABLE PROMMISES OF GOD

WILL ALTER THOSE PROMISES OF ALMIGHTY GOD

0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% WORTH.

[topcat54]

What...It's the same good works some of you guys and the Catholics believe in over there in Matthew...Where you have to visit people in prison, endure to the end, judgement of the sheep and goats, etc...

Au contraire, Pierre. No one is saved by faith in Jesus Christ AND anything. There is no “and anything” in the gospel.

I don't know how many Jews and others will be killed during the tribulation...I know Christians will be killed for their testimony in Jesus...

Why not? It says how many in Zechariah 13:8,9.

Take a look around you...You don't see the whole world just itchin' to get in there and wipe out Israel???

“The whole world”? Is that literal or hyperbole? I think this idea is the result of futurism's over-active imagination, plain and simple.

Another thing you don't seem to get is that God is going to intervene and SAVE THE JEWS..

It case you haven't looked around recently, God has been saving Jews for thousands of years. Every time one comes to Christ, the promise of God to Abraham that He would be a God to him and his descendants is being fulfilled, literally, right before our eyes. There is an elect remnant, the true Israel of God.

There is no need to wait until the futurists' tribulation for salvation to come to Jewish people.

[topcat54]

During the Tribulation there will be 144,000 Jews going thru the land witnessing for Jesus ...Many will be saved, if they endure to the end (of the Tribulation)...Many will not...

There is ABSOLUTELY

   NO SUCH ...

VERSE in tHe BIBLE.

This is

   a MyTh ...

     of FUTURISM, like

     all THE OthER ...

   mYTHs of FUTURISM.

[How did I do?]

[raynearhood]

[How did I do?]

Spendidly!

Also, I think that the format really drives the point home.

[Lee N. Field]

.Jews will be saved during the Tribulation by faith in Jesus Christ AND good works

You truly do not see the problem with this?

[Lee N. Field]

[How did I do?]

Really brings out the nuances in the text, it does.

[Lee N. Field]

BTW, I think both you and safisoft need new keyboards. His keeps dropping interior vowels, and your caps lock is discombobulated.

[topcat54]

G-D and L-RD but never J-S-S. Curious.

[Cvengr]

The Church is not Israel.

end of story.

[raynearhood]

G-D and L-RD but never J-S-S. Curious.

Never noticed that, but you're right. Curious.