Prophecy Pundits are at it Again

Calvary Chapel of Chino California held “ The Southern California Prophecy Conference” last week (Feb. 20–22, 2009). I wonder if those who came to hear speakers like Tim LaHaye, Mark Hitchcock, Paul McGuire, David Hocking, David Reagan, and Ed Hindson were aware that Chuck Smith, the founder of the Calvary Chapel network of churches, made some very definite predictions about when the “rapture” was going to take place.

While cleaning up my office, I came across a cassette tape of a sermon Chuck Smith preached on December 31, 1979. He told his very accepting audience on that day that the rapture would take place in 1981. The former Soviet Republic going into Afghanistan in August of 1978 was the prelude to what Smith considered to be a full-force invasion of the Middle East. It would not be long before “Russia” would invade Israel, Smith told his audience. All of this was said to have been “predicted” by Ezekiel 2600 years ago.

Smith went on to claim in his end-of-the-year message of 30 years ago that because of ozone depletion Revelation 16:8 would be fulfilled during the soon-coming Great Tribulation: “And the fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun; and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.” According to Smith, Halley’s Comet would pass near the earth in 1986 and would wreck atmospheric havoc for those left behind as debris from its million-mile tail pummeled the earth. Halley’s Comet did appear in 1986 with no damage done to our planet. (A similar prelude to the end had been predicted based on the so-called Jupiter Effect.[1]) ...

If you knew those "traditions of men" you would know what Matthew 27 is all about.

Come again.

G-d is well-pleased with those who make every effort to obey Him.

Even if it means inventing traditions that He has not authorized. I believe that is what got the Pharisees into so much trouble with Jesus. They tried to be holier than the Law.

I guess Deut. 4:2 isn't in your Bible.

As for "observance" - we do make every effort to keep the commandments of G-d.

According to the traditions of men.

So when was the last time you kept the eternal Feast of the L-RD of Yom T'ruah?

Why should I be made to carry your self-imposed burden? I do not need to. That is the blessing of the gospel. Jesus kept the Law perfectly and has fulfilled all the old covenant ceremonies, since there only purpose was to point to Him. They were but shadows and have passed away (Col. 2:16,17; Heb. 8:13).

I do not labor under the same misunderstanding that you do regarding ceremonial law keeping and the new covenant.

The bottom line of biblical eschatology can be summed up in a few verses, e.g.,

21 Then Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11)

When Israel or antichrist rather than Jesus Christ becomes the focus of all the eschatology talk, you know you have a problem.

Exactly! And this bears repeating over and over and over again.

If I may expand:
There is nothing wrong with disagreements over post-mil, preterist, amil, and historic pre-mil eschatologies. Anytime that an eschatology focuses on CNN, Fox News, the AP, etc... to try squeezing out fulfillment of Scripture - whenever an eschatology looks to the Jerusalem Post to learn about the endtimes - that eschatology develops a new theology that attempts to extend God's grace to those not in Christ. According to this twisted theology Jesus, our Redeemer, our Savior, the Messiah is not needed universally. That is the core problem with dispensation theology. All other perversions of the Scripture are logical fallicies resulting from that perversion of God's Grace and application of justice.

Since all of history is His Story, Dispensational Theology DOES focus upon His Plan and our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

That statement is nonsense. Anyone can make a nonsense statement like that:

Since all of history is His Story, Jehovah Witness Theology DOES focus upon His Plan and our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

Since all of history is His Story, Open Theist Theology DOES focus upon His Plan and our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

See?

That is a silly argument and precisely why it wasn't the argument I was making (by answering Lee N. Field's reply you were, by default, answering my reply).

Any one systematic theology is not the object of our worship, rather our object is through faith in Him, by His Word.

If only that were true, then no-one would have such diametrical opposition to dispensational theology.

By separating the OT from the NT, and by splitting the Covenant of God into two separate covenants (one Covenant with Israel and one with the Church as opposed to the Old Covenant being PERFECTED in the New Covenant) dispensational theology makes an argument for the negation of the redemptive work of Christ relative to the nation state of Israel. According to dispensation theology, God is going to fulfill His promise to Israel during the millennial rule of Christ. No need for faith in the Cross, God will redeem the nation state.

But, the FACT is, God has fulfilled His promise to Israel by establishing the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
”BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10"FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
11"AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,'
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
12"FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE."

13When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Now, the decendants of Abraham are nothing, the circumcision is nothing, the Old Covenant is nothing. It was a shadow of what was to come and it has passed away. Salvation is for those whose heart is circumcised by the Spirit, the circumcision of the flesh has no more meaning.

Romans 2
28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

It is through faith, not descent, that one is justified. The true descendents of Abraham, the heirs of the Old Covenant, are the faithful in Christ... not the circumcised in flesh.

Romans 4:
7"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8"BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."

9Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17(as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

18In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, "SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE." 19Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; 20yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. 22Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

The descedents of the circumcision of the flesh are waiting for the fulfillment of a promise that has already been fulfilled and they will be judged according to the Law. Dispensationalists are waiting on the same thing to happen for the Jews. God will not fulfill His promise to Israel in the future because He already has. That work is completed through the work of Christ.

All of dispensationalism hangs on the belief that the reestablishment of the nation state Israel is the moving principle by which prophecy is being fulfilled. All follow on erroneous dispensation theology interpretations of the endtimes hangs on the misguided interpretation of Scripture that God's Covenant through the circumcision of the flesh has not been fulfilled.

But the nation state Israel is not the Israel of the Covenant of God. They are not heirs to the promise. We are. End of story.

I know of no one in my camp asserting that Christ is unnecessary.

So you say...

Just because some Calvinists can’t seem to wrap their minds around Romans 11 is no sign that God has a problem with HIS PLAN to incorporate the blood children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob into THEIR TRUE MESSIAH’S REDEMPTION FOR THEM.

And yet you confirm it. The redemptive work of Christ, to the dispensationalist, is moot to the Jew because God has a future plan to redeem the bloodline of Abraham.

I have no problem with wrapping my mind around Romans 11. God's plan to incorporate the Jews into their true Messiah's redemption for them is the same as His plan to incorporate the Gentiles into their true Messiah's redemption for them.

Romans 11:19-29
You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
"THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Israel became on equal footing with the Gentile as a result of the redemptive work of Christ. If they continue in unbelief they remain broken off. If they come to belief, they are grafted in. God promised to save His people. He kept that promise with the New Covenant.

"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
"THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

The Deliverer did come, some 2000 years ago, and reigns NOW. The redemptive work of Christ is needed by all NOW to be saved. There are no second chances outside God's redemptive plan before the Second Coming. There is no second chance during a millennial rule after Christ's return. At the coming of the thief it's too late, the ungrafted will be destroyed.

Trying to inject some sort of future, other kind of salvation for the bloodline of Abraham is the core theological problem of dispensational theology.

11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

You found a good verse, but you don't know what to do with it...

Rom 4:3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Who's the 'we'??? The WE is Christians...Gentile, Jew, and anything else in between...'For there is no difference', in Christ...And that's the difference, that there IS NO difference, in Christ...Outside of Christ, there's a HUGE difference...

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Whoa, What happened here??? Now there's an odd thing, isn't it...Over there in James, Abraham is NOW justified by works...

Now here in the book of Hebrews, someone is speaking obviously to believers in Jesus Christ...

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

So what's going on here??? Who are the 'THEM'??? Why are these Hebrews being spoken to as believers but are instructed to follow 'them' who will inherit the promises???

The 'THEM' is us...Christians...At the end of the New Testament Jesus is again speaking to the Hebrews...

Most people disregard the little words in scripture...I believe the are the main Characters in the Scriptures...Here's an example...

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Most if not all translations change that word 'by' to through...But they are not the same...We can know that because they are spelled differently...

Some people can get to God through Jesus Christ...(in Christ, Christ in you)...Others can get to God but not necessarily through Jesus Christ but 'by' the authority of Jesus Christ...But then you have to be a dispensationalist to get this...

dispensational theology makes an argument for the negation of the redemptive work of Christ relative to the nation state of Israel. According to dispensation theology, God is going to fulfill His promise to Israel during the millennial rule of Christ. No need for faith in the Cross, God will redeem the nation state.

I'd say you don't know dispensational theology...

Two things here...Jews will be saved during the Tribulation by faith in Jesus Christ AND good works...They must endure to the end (of the Tribulation, or their untimely death for their belief)...This takes place while the church, the body of Christ is in Heaven attending her wedding and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb...

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