Posted on 12/27/2008 2:48:02 PM PST by NYer
Q. Why can’t Protestants receive communion at the Catholic Church?
A. To protect them from Judgment.
1 Corinthians 11: 27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be
guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
Since, Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist as we do, they do not discern or recognize that Jesus’ body is present under the appearance of bread and wine. We would be allowing them to eat and drink judgment upon themselves. The prohibtion is actually very charitable but, unfortunately, it is usually seen as a rejection.
Evidence of this interpretation of this passage is supported by St. Justin the Martyr :
“We call this food Eucharist; and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true…”
-Justin Martyr -FIRST APOLOGY, 66,20–(150 A.D.)
Q. Why do we call the bread “The Host”?
A. Our use of this term, to refer to the consecrated bread, comes from the Latin word hostia, which means ‘victim’. We believe that Jesus Christ is really present in the consecrated bread and wine on our altars. The mass is a re-presentation of the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross. Therefore, Jesus is the victim of sacrifice and we call the bread the host/victim to help us remember that it is no longer bread but the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ given to us to strengthen and keep us on the journey to Heaven.
If Orthodox Christians wanted to get some Catholic converts, I suppose the Orthodox Church could start their own "western rite" churches that followed the Roman rituals but were under the authority of Constantinople, if they wanted to.
I think the whole reason why the Orthodox church doesn't take a stance on how the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ is because the schism occurred before the Catholics weighed in on the matter and tried to explain what happens physically. I think the Lutherans accept the same doctrine and have their own version (it was mentioned earlier on this thread -- the idea that the body and blood of Jesus is UNDER the bread and wine). As a Catholic I probably side more with the Orthodox on this one -- the question of HOW God makes the bread and wine become his body and blood while retaining its original appearance is something that cannot be fully explained by human minds and remains a mystery.
As you can see from my thread above, I complained on these threads how some Protestants seem to lump the entire Christian community as accepting their doctrines. For example they constantly claim the veneration of Mary is a "Catholic thing" and the real presence of Jesus at communion is a "Catholic thing", both supposedly rejected by "non-Catholics", when in fact this and many other doctrine are accepted by both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches, and in fact the only ones rejecting it are the bulk of protestant churches (and not even all of them, since Lutherans and Anglicians tend to support the traditional POV). As an Orthodox Christian would you agree on that point?
Finally regarding the Agape feast, I think the reason for that was the early communion ceremonies were simply extended versions of Passover dinners, since the early Christians came from a Jewish background. Eventually they decided to make the passover meal a separate thing from the communion event, and soon did away with the passover meal all together.
All the saved ARE NOW in one congregation...And it doesn't involve the word Catholic...
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You apparently don't believe that, or I suspect you'd still be able to call yourself Protestant...
They may say that but c'mon...You can't have it both ways...
Ok what were they doing acts 2:46 when they were meeting and daily breaking bread? Was this not taking as you say communion? In first Cor they say that they were gathered for the Lords supper with eating and drinking then there was a time of bread and wine. In your opinion when did they start having a formal meeting and had communion? Since the communion I see in the bible is a time of refection on what Christ has done using the bread and wine like the last supper as a celebration and a time of refection.
Seems to be a big split on that issue...Even here on FR we've come across Catholics who claim they won't know if they are going to heaven until they get there (or don't)...They say it's presumptous for some of to suggest we already know we are going to heaven...
I've read numerous cases where Catholic widows and mothers begged their priests to 'connect' with God and further the chances that their already dead husband/child would make it to heaven...
The priest would then demand an 'indulgance'; a cow, horse, money, and in many cases the house and property...Surely you're read or heard of cases like this...
-A8
The latter!
We use grape juice. They give you a thimble full of grape juice and a 1/4” cube of cracker like substance.
By turning away, do you mean from the beginning, or do you mean that they accepted him, then later changed their minds? I think it is the latter where we differ. You say it is possible, and will result in loss of salvation. We say that it simply evidences that you were never really saved to begin with.
Of course, the Old Testament was a little different anyway, since they were under the Law. Even Judas died before Christ rose from the dead.
A Baptist would say that all sin is mortal. The only issue is whether God can and will forgive it. Without Christ, it won’t be forgiven no matter small it is in our eyes. With Christ, it is forgiven, no matter how large.
I look forward to the day when we can converse. It is not here yet.
I would certainly hope so. There is a difference between sitting in a church and studying the Bible vs attending a liturgical service filled with prayers drawn from scripture.
Regardless of their actions, they are baptized Catholics. Only their confessor knows the state of their soul. Should they be in a state of mortal sin and receive communion from someone other than their confessor, they are committing an even graver sin.
How would a priest recognize a "believing Protestant". What beliefs do they share with the Catholic Church? Does the believer accept transubstantiation?
You write:
“Way to write in love and encouragement, brother!”
You mean like when Christ called the Pharisees vipers?
“Now if only you wayward Catholics would also keep your mouths shut about what you don’t know about communion within the Protestant church.”
I know what I am talking about and therefore I feel no need not to speak out. Go ahead and prove me wrong.
“But we’re just heretics to you...”
And there again, that is not what I said. You’re back to strawmen because you have nothing else to do.
“Go in peace, and God forgive you for judging others!”
I judged no one. I even specifically said the opposite. Not only do you create strawmen in post after post, but you apparently feel the need to resort to dishonesty.
How sad.
Actually in the early days after Christianity was legalized, most of the murdering was done BY the heretics, specifically the Arian heretics, who included the Vandals and the Goths, since the Germanic conquerors of the western Roman Empire were Arians, up to the time of the Frankish King Clovis. Later Clovis's political successor Charlemagne murdered some pagans in the name of the Church, but really to enforce the unity of his kingdom.
Have to sing at Mass, but there's a few things that need to be said - selling of indulgences was NOT a Vatican approved practice and can be traced to a single bishop, there's a lot more to the Martin Luther story namely that there were many people in northern Europe at the time ready for revolt and that movement had been underway for about 200 years. What he did to the Bible had to do with the St. Augustine/St. Jerome conflict at the Council of Carthage.
And seriously, calling various movements and leading the flock astray heresy and apostasy is historically necessary. There's heresies being spouted here that were routed out before the Canon was closed.
Provide the list of writings from actual early Church Fathers who denied Christ's true presence in the Eucharist?
Do you think it's possible that you're addicted to free republic and you psychologically convince yourself that you're doing the will of God and know ALL things?
If these forums takes away from an hour of prayer it becomes addictive
Our Lord said.. "could you not watch with Me one hour?"
Again, I am a Protestant who has been married to a Catholic almost 25 years. I also have attended mass at a Catholic Church 80% of Sundays the past 25 years.
To me , it is absolutely stunning the lack of knowledge that Catholics have of the Bible. Where as a kid, we Protestants were absolutely drilled on scripture, Catholics (even with catechism)only learn Dogma and tradition of RC Church.
Just ask any group of Catholics a general question about the Bible or Bible history. You'll be surprised of all the blank "deer in the headlight" stares you will get.
They knew they we NOT true miracles,only illusions.
The pharisees hearts were hardened by their religious pride!
Perhaps you should think about this?
“Sorry, while the High Church has tried HARD to remain Catholic, they failed. Accept it. Come home.”
Here is where you show your true position. The ‘High Church’ doesn’t exist, there is no such thing. And where is this ‘home’ you mention to come back to?
There is no core Home church in the context you use the term.
If by Home you are referring to the Catholic Church you must not know the history of Christ’s church.
There was the church before before the Catholic Church and it was from that body the Catholic Church broke from.
So, are you telling Catholics to return to their first beliefs? The true church at the beginning.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.