Joseph Smith’s Modalism: Sabellian Sequentialism or Swedenborgian Expansionism?

Institute for Religious Research ^ | 2006 | Ronald V. Huggins

[Elsie]

 

3) From the content of many of these posts, I conclude that studying Mormonism must nearly be a full-time hobby for many of these posters. When do they have time to study their own religion? be missionaries for their own religion? and strengthen their beliefs in their own families?

 

 

Leave THEM aLONE!

 

They's just  human!

[Elsie]

From the content of many of these posts, I conclude that studying PRESBYTERIANISM must have nearly be a full-time hobby for Joseph Smith. When did he have time to study OTHER religions?

[Elsie]

From the content of many of these posts, I conclude that studying PRESBYTERIANISM must have nearly be a full-time hobby for Joseph Smith. When did he have time to study OTHER religions?

[Elsie]

We call that hypocrisy.

I prefer to think of it as blindness. I don't think a PERSON would REALLY try to FAKE this level of belief.

[Godzilla]

I can see that you do not like to answer my questions, ok.

Christians believe the New Testament is more modern, complete, and better than the just the Old Testament and the Jewish religion.

I can see that you carry an incomplete view of the Bible from a Christian standpoint. The NT isn't better but they complete and complement each other and as a unity are better.

What is Christianity to you winter?

By the way....You have spent soooo much time and effort on combing through the Mormon writings in your post ( which I merely skimmed),,,,and...I still know NOTHING about what you believe, if you are even a Christian, and know nothing at all about **your** denomination. ( which I am certain is perfectly **wonderful**)

If you had read my posts, first and formost you would probably understand that I believe in the historic and orthodox doctrine of the Trinity. If you would have read previous posts, you would have seen my statements in effect to my participation in my own church. Talking about my denomination is wonderful is not what is at stake here, understanding that mormonism. Jesus and the Apostles in their writings warn repeatedly against those who would come in the name of Jesus:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

One more question: Your post evidently reflects an enormous amount of time studying Mormonism. How do you find the time to study your own?

As a born-again Christian, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I have been studying Christianity for several decades now. First and foremost, I followed the principle that basically says: If you don't know what you stand for - you will fall for anything. That study showed that there were those who would be wolves in sheeps clothing, as Jesus said above - to deceive the very elect. A relatively basic study of the NT would show you, winter, that much of the letters by the Apostles were written to the church in response to false teaching and teachers worming they way into those congregations.

My more detailed study of mormonism has been more recent. You will note here that mormons will claim over and over again that we misrepresent their doctrines. Therefore, to constructively engage them, one must know their doctrines. If you are familar with the Apostle Paul, you will see that he did the same thing at Mars Hill. Mormonism has been defined by some as being a maze who utilizes Christian termonology but places a completely different definition to the word.

[Elsie]

I really would be interested in learning a little more about **your** church and their specific and uniquely wonderful beliefs.

No doubt you would: but WHY??

Isn't TIME something very precious?

Why WASTE it looking into ANOTHERS religion??

[ejonesie22]

OOOH...

Good one...

Hypocrisy indeed...

Duck in a barrel....

this is way too easy.

[Elsie]

TMI!!!!

(Ping Fproy - I'm sure it may interest him. ;^)

[Elsie]

Hey!

My ducks have a 6’ pool!

(But VERY hard water this time of year! ;^)

[Tennessee Nana]

I really would be interested in learning a little more about **your** church and their specific and uniquely wonderful beliefs. Do you have a link to a website, please?
_____________________________________

“**your** church and their specific and uniquely wonderful beliefs...”

Yes, it does appear to be extremely different to what you believe and practice...

I am a Christian...

Thank you for asking about my “religion”, Christianity...

Christianity is not related to mormonism...

mormons are not Christians...

mormonism is a cult that denies the saving power of the blood of Jesus..

We believe in the Trinity...

We believe in the Jesus of the Bible...

We believe that Jesus is God...

We believe that Jesus died on the Cross and shed His precious blood for the redemption of all mankind..

We believe thayt Jesus is the Messiah promised by the prophets in the Old Testamant...

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18

He died in our place...

He did a complete work...

Jesus is the ONLY way to God the Father...

Jesus saith unto wintertime, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

We believe that the decision to accept or rejec t Jesus is done during own natural lifetime...

After we die it is too late..

After all how many years do you need ???

We believe there is a Heaven and there is a Hell..

We believe God has always been God...

We believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and a lying adulterer...a lazy bum who saw an opportunity to swindle dopes out of their hard earned cash and belongings...

Now it appears you have been concerned about Christians acting like Christians...

I dont know how the unGodly cult mormonism got mixed in with the Holy and Righteous Jesus of the Bible and His believers...

Paul said...

So take me for your example, even as I take Christ for mine. 1 Corinthians 1:1

Good advice there..thanks, Paul..

The mormons dont follow Jesus, so why would anyone want to follow them ???

Why would a Christian reject the righteous teachings of the Bible and copy an Anti-Christian cult ???

A colt founded on booze sales and whoremongery ???

A sex club for lecherous males ???

The Christians are instructed to imitate Jesus..

You can buy a Bible in most bookstores...

The Bible is the #1 best seller of all time...

Do you believe in the Trinity ???

Who is Jesus to you ???

[Tennessee Nana]

Why WASTE it looking into ANOTHERS religion??
___________________________________

ROFLMBO

[ejonesie22]

Hoist by ones own petard comes to mind...

LOL...

[Tennessee Nana]

;)

[cruise_missile]

Did Springtime come early his year(thread)?

[Tennessee Nana]

Jesus is a man for all seasons...

;)

[cruise_missile]

AMEN!!!

[Tennessee Nana]

Your post evidently reflects an enormous amount of time studying Mormonism.
______________________________________

Yes, well Christians are told to watch out for false teachings...

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

So we Christians do the same when we come across mormon doctrine like this ....
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God....yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.... [Joseph Smith, quoted by Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 345-346.]

“He is our Father – the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being…. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;…[Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333-334]

“The Gods who dwell in the Heaven from which our spirits came, are beings who have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state. [Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, 1853-1854, 20.]

“You and I—what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.” [President Spencer W. Kimball, Our Great Potential, Ensign, May 1977, page 49.]

[DelphiUser]

DU - As for the Jesus of the Bible, we believe in him too! We just have a more original less modern interpretation than those who have accepted the trinity as created in the fourth century. Really, that is what this fuss is all about, the Trinitarians have accepted far worse things into their midst, but one who does not accept their creed, well that has to be stopped!

GZ - Well winter, do you, as a professed Christian, recognize an insult when you see one?

Yes Godzilla, we do.

wintertime, please note how subtly at first godzilla questions your christainity.

GZ - But DU likes to mask his words to make you think he is talking the same Jesus as you, even to the point of linking Jesus to the Bible.

Actually, I use plain english words, and I actually know what they mean when I use them.

(From the last emporer)
Pu Yi, at 15: /mr. Johnston, are words important?
Reginald Fleming 'R.J.' Johnston: Words are important.
Pu Yi, at 15: Why are words important?
Reginald Fleming 'R.J.' Johnston: If you cannot say what you mean, your majesty, you will never mean what you say and a gentleman should always mean what he says.

Many on this forum on both sides do not mean what they say for they do not understand the words used to say what they mean. (and yes, I mean that ;-)

GZ - This is contrary to the recent former prophet's words -
President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.

Actually, this "quote" cuts out a very important piece, some here would even call that lying, This is the full quote and link to the source: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/31188/Crown-of-gospel-is-upon-our-heads.html

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.

"Am I Christian? Of course I am. I believe in Christ. I talk of Christ. I pray through Christ. I'm trying to follow Him and live His gospel in my life."

When ever you cut a sentance in two, or eliminate a link, or eliminate anything right after your quote that may change the effect of the quote, you are taking that quote out of context.

GZ - Have you studied your bible well enough to know a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Yes, we see you for what you are.

(it's a silly thing to ask and can be taken both ways, so I illustrated).

GZ - Do you know what Smith said that day he left the grove?

Neither do you, for this was written years later, but we've had this conversation before, so you knew that.

GZ - 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith — History, 1:19

Here is the link JSH 1:19 or you could actaully read the whole story by reading the whole chapter, it's not long. Or even just the First vision.

GZ - Is the Jesus you worship the spirit brother of satan?

You know (having had this conversation with me many times) that I have this on my web page here.

GZ - Is the Jesus you worship God the Son, second Person of the Trinity.

This too is answered on may page under The Oneness of God

GZ - You haven't seen DU's rants against the Trinity yet have you?

I have made no secret that I believe one of the biggest diffrences between Traditional christainity is the trinity. I don't believe that I have ever ranted (although I may have anyway)

Have a nice day wintertime.

[cruise_missile]

Colossians 1:16 (New International Version)

“For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.”

What’s the definition of all?

[greyfoxx39]

I see you can still recognize a golden contact when you see one, Delph....Winter is ripe for the plucking. Let us know when (S)he is confirmed a mormon. ;)