Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
My duplicate post was due my attempt to recall my post in mid transmission, as i realized that i typed “continue” rather than “contend.” Alas, the abort signal was too late.
As for your response, i hold that it is impossible for Jesus not to be God, as having the same Divine nature as the Father, unless you believe Scripture contradicts itself.
Some of my reasons are here: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html
As for the Holy Spirit, that He is a person is evident, and having the same nature as well.
We Catholics will be saved if we follow the rules - God’s rules. Self-styled “Christians” tell me they are already saved. No matter what they do they are saved. Pretty easy!
They think life and attaining heaven is like a snap college course - an easy “A”. And, yes these “Christians” do go on and on - they think converting a Catholic is a real feather in their cap. They are pests. So go back and immerse yourself in Jimmie’s “Bible”. Imagine some bored guy decided one day to rewrite the Bible because the revealed word of God wasn’t good enough for him! He knew better! Now that’s chutzpah! And some people buy into it. P.T. Barnum was correct.
A few years after that there was Methodist Revelations study. Different OT and NT studies followed. I must say what was the most helpful about the Methodist studies was that the teacher gave us the historical and cultural background. Then there was the study on prayer. Basically it came down to "If God doesn't give you what you ask for you are not walking with God". Ummmmm, NO. That kind of sounds like Joel.
About two years ago I did yet another Revelations Study through the diocese by Jeff Crandall from St. Martha's. The best Revelations study I have ever done.
I also bought Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind by David B. Currie, the author of Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic There was also a Hal Lindsey book in there somewhere.... The Catholic study made the most sense.
Still no picture...I have no advice I am a dolt, when it comes to posting pictures...
Do you see a link?
Very interesting. Is the Swastika backwards?
Well Sarge,
It appears that we agree on a few things, but not so many things after all.
I think that I’ll take a break from the religion threads again for a while.
Clearly folks (you included) are not interested in what the Bible has to say about things, and I personally am still not interested in debating scripture with folks who have little experience with actually reading it with a goal toward understanding.
Thank You for your service Sir, and I was just kidding about the “Sarge” thing. That thing that a lot of folks might not have noticed because they don’t pay so much close attention like you do.
No, I dont...maybe something is wrong with my computer....other than knowing how to turn the thing on, and working the keyboard, I am computer illiterate....
OK...now I found the link...I had so many pings going at one time, I got all twisted around...so I have the link, and will study the pics...thanks...
Thanks very much for relating your experiences and thanks also for those links....I WILL check them out, for sure...
Well put.
I have, too.
Was enabled of The Lord to add footwashing as a major ending component to a powerful popular weekend spiritual event.
For a group of men . . . it can be a very powerful experience.
Even groups of ladies repeatedly found it overwhelmingly positive in terms of their relationship with God and with others . . . really broke a lot of walls down.
[Well put.]
But #2079 is better put.
One shouldn’t scratch themselves on a religion forum...very tacky.
I notice you failed to comment on the basis of your dismissiveness of the quotes.
1. Because you didn’t believe the leaders said those things.
2. Because you beleive that they had no power to bring such about.
3. Because you don’t believe the normally credible publications etc.
4. ????
Well, there is always Wikipedia....yeah, I know, some folks think everything on Wikipedia is unreliable...but here we go anyway...here is a general article about the swastika...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
And then there is a more specific article about the use of Swastika...
Here you can find where they talk about the use of the swastika among various Native American groups...
Sounds like nonsense piled on top of nonsense, to me.
Thanks all. Time for me to depart for the evening. God Bless.
Is RC rep’s vision
as flawed as their logic and Biblical, historical pontifications?
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