Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
That would explain why you didn’t have the energy to refute what they said.
==
Quite plausible, to me.
Evidently the RC edifice now has a
mangled reality testing factory along side it’s straw dog factory, as well.
Ok..did not see this before my last post...you have it right. Alleluia!! Mark the calendars! We agree (I think).
He wants us all to choose Him, yet in giving us all free will, He knows that some will not choose Him. It is their choice to reject Him, not His. Each of us has the ability to choose Him. Some of us, sadly, will not.
God knows He created many who would not choose Him, yet He is also powerful enough to create those who do not choose Him without controlling that choice.
I’d better look this one over again. I’m not sure an item can be the source of Grace because God is the only source of Grace. I think items can be a reminder, but not a source.
No gibberish rule (NGR) invoked.
All those supporting one way or another the goal of a global government . . .
which is largely in place . . . I’d say better than 70-85% in place.
Particularly the under the table parts and the economic parts.
You two Dearums are soooooo sweet.
Gwarsh. Thanks.
Dear “mom”.
If it doesn’t ultimately matter what anyone says, then I can’t help but wonder why this thread has gone to nearly 2,000 posts with all the things that people have had to say.
Should I think that it may all have been a waste of time—at least for some?
BTW, I also just scroll past without looking at:
*drive-by posts which don’t say much but just repeat the same mantras
*posts in brilliant and various colors
*posts using bold or extra large fonts
*non-posts with laughing hyenas and mice and other creatures
What very little time I have I prefer to read something with substance.
I have a fulltime job in my home and FR is at the bottom of my to do list.
Please pray for me from time to time.
ROE
There is a syndrome at work here of those who sadly refuse to engage in intelligent dialog because some part of their souls fears being convinced of the truth of Catholicism.
This is both bitter (in that they resist His truth so powerfully) and yet sweet (because this behavior acknowledges by fear the truth of Catholicism).
Pray for these souls, brother, as will I.
If an item can be a source of evil then it can be a source of Grace because the evil one always mocks God. Now of course the actual source of evil is Satan and the actual source of Grace is God but the evil or Grace passes through the “thing” in question.
Right, we should not fear evil for we know that God is greater and through God we have the power to defeat it.
Heresy is no laughing matter. Doing so mocks God.
However, Dear Dr E . . .
They've been producing mangled paraphrases of SCRIPTURE for 1600 years . . . what chance has a poor Protty FREEPER to have his/her text unscathed! We'll certainly fare no better than Almighty God has fared with them!
It is free will.
Thankfully, baptism is not what saves us. God's grace alone through faith alone in His Son's redemption of us on the cross is what saves the sinner.
Grace saves, and grace alone.
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:5-9 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Paul understood this concept was so important he repeated it verbatim in the span of four verses. Grace saves.
I guess one might need such a book if one couldn’t hear Holy Spirit about such things.
That’s just creepy enough to be gay.
You will do what you want, and it seems I cannot rely on your decency to stop.
But I will continue to label the behavior as I see it.
Creepy and either fake or gay.
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