Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Maybe it was George Michael. He's coming back, I hear.
lol, not again
I actually had a client called Rosencrantz. I had a hard time taking him seriously.
Really? How do you know that?
>>According to the RCC catechsim, found at Vatican.va, all Scripture must be interpreted by the magisiterium, the bishops and the pope before being read and understood by members of the church. <<
I think someone has a bit of a problem linking from Vatican.va. It’s come up before.
This is an inference on your part. The text says no such thing.
Now, while I believe Mary had offspring, the “offspring†in Revelations most certainly are not HER children.
Catholic teaching makes us all her children.
Of course, I don’t think even the Catholics believe that Mary was chased by a dragon, or was given wings to fly to the desert.
What part of "Mary is the woman of Revelation 12" are you not getting?
I reject the idea that you can take a passage of scripture, interpret parts of it as being factual history, while other parts within the same story are clearly imagery, not meant to be taken literally.
Too bad. The book of Daniel isn't going anywhere. You reject this at your own peril.
And believe me, everything I just said is in NO way getting into detail. The detailed analysis of Revelation 12 would take more knowledge than I possess, and more words than I could reasonably write in a day, or a week.
Unfortunately, you seem to think a detailed analysis is equal to an authoritative analysis.
They are not.
I can only point out to you the wisdom of Ronald Reagan: it's not that our liberal friends are ignorant, it just that they know so much that isn't so.
the 3rd day is a nice touch
On the contrary, Scripture tells us that Christ is the only mediator between God and men, and that God alone is the recipient of our prayers.
How would that differ from what you say the Bible says?
>>How would that differ from what you say the Bible says? <<
Spot on!
Catholic prayer threads ask Mary and the saints to pray for them.
Bible-believing Christians ask for prayers to be sent to God alone.
Still wondering if you believe petitionary prayer has any effect.
Already answered.
Thanks. I’ll remember that.
Where in the Bible do we learn that Mary could or would or did “alter God’s divine plan?”
>>Bible-believing Christians ask for prayers to be sent to God alone.<<
It’s too bad for you! You lose out. I got some pretty powerful people praying with me.
So, let’s say a Protestant’s child needed a heart transplant. He comes to FR and asks for our prayers. Should he accept mine because I ask St. Anastasia to pray with me?
I seem to recall that in Acts, there are descriptions of the apostles healing the sick; I guess all those people who came to them could have ignored the apostles and prayed all on their own and been healed. Too bad that they didn't have the scriptures to tell them that, and had to rely on the apostles to be their intermediaries....
Do you consider following any of the Ten Words of G-d ?b'shem Yah'shuaOr do you just choose which commandments you will follow ?
Thus every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes;
Where are we taught in Scripture to lean on our own understanding?
PAPERTYGER: If only Christ were enough for you, you'd be Catholic.
But a Catholic poster said for the umpteenth time that "no Mary, no Jesus."
So it would seem it's the Catholic who requires something other than the risen Christ.
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