Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
And aren’t you glad He did? I like that kind of God!
Is that what the RCC is now calling JPII's embarrassing lapse in sanity when he tenderly kissed the Koran?
Maybe he was likewise suffering from "pope derangement syndrome" when he said Mary was the "co-redeemer."
lol, I wonder when they identify this, or does it come and go
You've been asked for evidence of this statement a half-dozen times. And yet no evidence ever shows up.
Again, please give us some tangible examples of "Protestants worshiping the Bible."
When Gibson's movie came out I went a-hootin' off to one of my learned friends and complained. He agreed with me and said that rumor had it that Mel went with Latin because of something to do with his relationship to the Church.
Now Mabel Freebucker from Dry Gulch spoke Latin, I'd stake my life.
I see nothing further to be accomplished here.
Protestants 1)insist that they know what Catholics believe, and 2)tell us what we believe, and then 3)play district attorney questioning us minutely about what they say we believe.
It’s Mad Dawg’s game. I see no purpose in it, there is no possbility of dialogue.
Catholic: “I believe thus and so.”
Protestant: “No you don’t, you believe what I say you believe”
Catholic: “No, I believe thus and so.”
Protestant: “That’s the wrong answer, you have to play by our rules, and our rules say if it’s not in scripture interpreted the way we say it it, then that’s the wrong answer.”
Catholic: “No, I believe thus and so.”
Protestant: “Come here, fellow Protestants, look! The Catholic is giving the wrong answers, and they aren’t playing by protestant rules! Therefore, we win. Yaaaaayyyyy!!!!”
Catholic: “Whatever.”
Lurker: “Hmmmmmmmm.........”
Good grief! Look at what you've written!
Christ did not get His sinless nature from Mary! He got it because He was and is and always will be God!
(I need more exclamation marks on this one.)
It is not Bible-only. It praying to Jesus, reading the Bible, and understanding it with help from the Holy Spirit.
Because he knows we’re trolls????? LOL.
Meant to ping you guys, too, to 568.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!????!!!!
It is frankly manifest when the same misconceptions are repeated over and over again and each time with the same eager naivete.
Is Mary your “co-redeemer?”
And no one else can answer our prayers but God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
Boy you know how to put a smile on my face! :)
ROTFLOL
Very true. I think here it's largely a matter of geography -- Europeans frequently can get along in more than one language, but it's a day trip or a weekend trip to another country, so there's plenty of opportunity to practice. I hear Japan is pretty monolingual too, what with the isolation.
My own Lithuanian grandmother also spoke Polish and Yiddish (no, she wasn't Jewish, but she was a shabbas goy as a child), and -- as she put it -- enough Russian so no one could sell her anything in it.
Some Protestants. It's always the same people.
But I do know what you mean. It's like someone telling me a drive a Hyundai when I actually drive a Honda. After I show him my Honda and my bill of sale, the next day he says "so why did you buy a Hyundau - you should have bought a Honda".
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