Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
You’ll have to find one of our Bible scholars dear Vlad. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do it.
KJV is a political document.
Where is your evidence that 2nd Timothy 3:16 refers only to 67 books of the Bible?
***Old Reggie purchased a special
PROTTY VIVID COLOR INDULGENCE—ROYAL ORDER OF RED version.***
I believe that you have already made it adequately clear that you consider the words of Jesus to be inadequate.
***Thanks to the UNPope for small favors. Amen.”
The miniscule sum is then automatically transferred to his Heavenly account and can be spent immediately via any spontaneously contrived enraptured Protty rituals.***
I’m not acquainted with the UNPope. Does he run the UN?
***There’s rumor that a special class of clerics are coalescing into a new order of UnJesuits to compile a list of all the heretofore spontaneous rituals and insure their being***
Do they compete with Met Life?
***It seems, like the poor, the bureaucracy, we always have with us.***
The bureaucracy created the KJV and the Westminster Confession and the two Confessions. You Protestants weigh yourselves down.
Rumor?
It's called protestantism. You're talking about a 400-year-old "rumor."
***So am I staying with the tried and true, my Bible. If you read God’s Word (and there are books who also show you the Cults and what they practice), you will know who the cults are.***
Now do you understand why we say that the Protestants depend upon the theologies of men? Your statement that “there are books” indicate that you follow the directions of men and not the Church.
Who wrote these books? Men. What are their credentials and motives? Who knows. I don’t think that you are on firm ground.
I checked 2 of them out, it was nothing like all those anti-Catholicism sites. The word Protestant was in the 1st twice and in in the 2nd one 3Xs.
***Coulda fooled me! LOL.***
We don’t think of it as a game. Your immortal soul is at stake.
Excellent post!
You wrote:
“You’ll have to find one of our Bible scholars dear Vlad. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do it.”
Few books in the Bible actually claim inspiration. That’s the point. Inspiration is not contingent upon the author actually claiming it in writing.
***I checked 2 of them out, it was nothing like all those anti-Catholicism sites. The word Protestant was in the 1st twice and in in the 2nd one 3Xs.***
May the Lord bless you.
I had no stomach for crawling around something equivalent to Protestant anti Catholic hate sites and now it appears that these are not. Thank you.
As Paul wrote in the NT . . .
I'm persuaded that He shall keep that which I've committed [moi] unto Him against that day . . .
And that, therefore, nothing shall separate me from the Love of God.
Why would a Protestant need a Bible scholar, I thought all they had to do was read it and understand it.
As with the LDS, we are very concerned that Protestants in general do not understand who Jesus is.
The exotic theologies, the misinterpretations of Scripture and the denial of the Church concern us greatly.
***I’m persuaded that He shall keep that which I’ve committed [moi] unto Him against that day . . .
And that, therefore, nothing shall separate me from the Love of God.***
The brightest angel is always on the prowl. He is the father of lies and deceit. If he could persuade Judas to betray Jesus Christ, how much easier can he betray an individual deliberately bereft of the Church?
***Why would a Protestant need a Bible scholar, I thought all they had to do was read it and understand it.***
Perhaps the indwelling Reformed Holy Spirit, the hijacker of the surprised soul, is too weak to give the directions.
The non Reformed Protestant Holy Spirit, cannot even hijack, so I’m not sure what He does.
WHAT AN UNMITIGATED FALSEHOOD!
I’m not acquainted with the UNPope. Does he run the UN?
Naw. However, rumor has it that He moonlights as the lead Character in an old play called GODSPELL.
The bureaucracy created the KJV and the Westminster Confession and the two Confessions. You Protestants weigh yourselves down.
Ya know, RC’s really ought not to steal Protty’s lines and constructions on reality. Your RELIGIOUS political power mongering committees have been bureaucratizing pseudo-“Christianity” for 1600 years . . . you don’t NEED any of our lines! LOL.
It’s conceivable that I could find an ESL class somewhere that might help with the communications problem.
I’d bet that cyborg would know where one was close to home. I’m sure she’s more pleasant to consult with on how to find one.
The brightest angel is always on the prowl. He is the father of lies and deceit. If he could persuade Judas to betray Jesus Christ, how much easier can he betray an individual deliberately bereft of the Church?
= = =
We see plenty of evidence of that in a host of RC rep postings virtually 24/7.
Thankfully, Prottys are not bereft of Christ’s Church Universal. And Praise God for that!
***I believe that you have already made it adequately clear that you consider the words of Jesus to be inadequate.
WHAT AN UNMITIGATED FALSEHOOD! ***
I believe that you have quoted misunderstood Paul over the direct words of Jesus - just not in the volume that the Calvinists do.
***The bureaucracy created the KJV and the Westminster Confession and the two Confessions. You Protestants weigh yourselves down.
Ya know, RC’s really ought not to steal Protty’s lines and constructions on reality. Your RELIGIOUS political power mongering committees have been bureaucratizing pseudo-“Christianity” for 1600 years . . . you don’t NEED any of our lines!***
I’m sure that you meant something by this. Would you care to elaborate so that those of us who live on a planet with a blue sky can understand?
I pray you have great success with that!
Which was your first language?
***The brightest angel is always on the prowl. He is the father of lies and deceit. If he could persuade Judas to betray Jesus Christ, how much easier can he betray an individual deliberately bereft of the Church?
= = =
We see plenty of evidence of that in a host of RC rep postings virtually 24/7.
Thankfully, Prottys are not bereft of Christ’s Church Universal. And Praise God for that!***
Oddly enough, you guys walked out on the Church. Deliberately. You’d praise God for rejecting Him? Strange. But your theologies are rather strange as well.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.