Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
mgist, what we are trying to do here is not anti-catholic HATE or bashing. I know when one is under what they perceive to be an attack, it can feel like hate. We born again protestants on these threads know that the only way to be saved is to have faith and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. When we see here how many people believe they can be saved through baptism, through Mary, or the Eucharist, it really makes us hurt for those who do believe that, because it may lose them their salvation. There are SO many differences between our pathways to salvation that we feel we need to speak out against them. It has NOTHING to do with you or any other Catholic personally.
Hopefully the truth will set you free from the bondage of not knowing until you die whether or not you will be in heaven for all eternity.
Thank you for sharing your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
Lately, he hasn't said anything about it, instead opting to ignore God in most of his movies. Too bad.
Wow, you ARE OLD Reggie! I love old saints of God.
Thank your for your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
She was a pretty deaf dog in life, and she sure can't hear any prayers now.
Perhaps you would like to explain to me how exactly sola scripture COULD have been employed prior to 1440.
Before Gutenberg invented the printing press, ALL Bibles had to be inscribed by hand. As a result, Bibles were extremely expensive and took a long time to get. On top of that, large segments of the population was illiterate (when there are no books available, literacy is not a priority). These are historical FACTS and they are not up for debate.
So, in light of this, how is it that you think sola scriptura could have existed. Do you believe that God is so cruel that He would develop a method of Salvation that would only be available to the very wealthy for fourteen centuries? Do you not find it at least somewhat revealing that the doctrine of sola scriptura only came AFTER Bibles became much more available to the average person?
And many may go to hell because of it.
Please explain how someone is going to hell for not believing something that is specifically warned AGAINST in the Bible?
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. (2 Peter 3:16-17).
Do they have 2 Peter in their Bibles?
LOL.
Jesse Duplantis asserts in his book and videos about his trip to Heaven [CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE GOD KIND]
that there are definitely animals in Heaven.
Sounds like something God would do.
Hah, I doubt that most protestants even notice or care.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. (John 6:51-55)
Hopefully the truth will set you free from the bondage of not knowing until you die whether or not you will be in heaven for all eternity.
Perhaps practitioners of 16th Century theological error should be more concerned with the state of their own souls.
I think so.
Absolutely wonderful post, roamer. You said it beautifully and lovingly.
YEESSSSS!
You've got to understand, apologetics is new to them. They come from a history of being a state church in an era where the kings could determine the faith of their subjects. It's only been about 500 yrs since freedom came to man in the Reformation. ;-0
Honoring the Bible and living by its precepts will get you a whole lot farther.
Preach it everyday at every opportunity.
The only reason I ask is because I told a non-Catholic coworker of a quote from a Bible Study I was taking.
She said, “Oh that’s from those books you added.”
It made me laugh!!!
FUNNY!
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