The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.

[Petronski]

The declared purpose to “assert the contrary” failed miserably.

[Quix]

Of course, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

That’s one of the things that is mystifyingly mind-boggling to me about the whole plethera of accoutrament entrappings of the Roman edifice.

Why didn’t someone somewhere along the way see Christ overturning all kinds of edifice tables and assumptions and driving out all manner of professional RELIGIOUS political power mongers???

[netmilsmom]

>>The declared purpose to “assert the contrary” failed miserably.<<

Yeah, it really did fail.
And I do love when that quote from the CCC is put up. Like all the Catholics are supposed to put up an “Oh Noes” graphic and drop out of the Church.

Sorry, I agree with it.

[Quix]

Seems a bit early for such a personal assault, to me.

[Petronski]

I love the would-be “Ah ha!” moment the other day when I was accused of putting Tradition equal with Scripture.

Uh, read my tagline.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

LOL. Great little story.

It reminds me of that horrible Tom Hanks movie, "Castaway," where writer/director Zemekis doesn't make Tom Hanks grateful to have survived the terrible plane crash that killed everyone else. Instead, he's thoroughly furious at being shipwrecked.

And NOT ONCE in that movie do we see Tom Hanks praying to God to save him or protect him. Not once do we see Tom Hanks on his knees thanking God for sparing his life or asking for guidance and strength.

Rather, he builds himself a little shrine to talk to and love and protect and be consoled by an idol of his own making...

Compare that to Hanks' earlier movie, "Joe Vs. the Volcano" where Joe Banks, adrift at sea and about to die, drops to his knees and thanks God for his life.

That's called "progress" in Hollywood.

[Marysecretary]

Amen, Dr. E. Too bad we can’t use scriptures to counter the RC’s beliefs for they don’t believe in sola scripture or sola fide. And many may go to hell because of it. Sad stuff.

[Petronski]

There was no personal assault, just good advice.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Jesus is "the light of the world". That is another way of saying that He IS the truth. He also says "I am the way, the truth, and the life".

I know this is true by virtue of being born again.

AMEN!

THAT is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Quix]

Of course both ended up in heaven.

ZOTS can be very instructive and educational!

[netmilsmom]

Protestants got us beat in Homeschooling and Children’s Ministries. Hands down.

I wouldn’t be homeschooling if it wasn’t for my Protestant friends and I use Switched On Schoolhouse from Alpha Omega Publications. It’s a Protestant outfit and the best education for the cheapest price IMO. 300.00 non-consumable curriculum means I educate my girls for 150.00 a year + paper and printer ink.

I’ve turned tons of people onto SOS. I just skip 6th grade (the year of the reformation focus) and the girls go to CCD. They do Bible Study there in non-sacremental years (2nd and 8th).

[netmilsmom]

LOL!!!!

[Quix]

Incredible.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for reminding me of that scene from "Joe v. the Volcano!" I remember him saying to God something like "I forgot you were so big."

[Petronski]

Too bad we can’t use scriptures to counter the RC’s beliefs for they don’t believe in sola scripture or sola fide.

We Catholics also reject the Biblical errors of sola scriptura and sola fide.

And many may go to hell because of it.

Go to hell for rejecting what Luther and others added to the Bible?

Sad stuff.

I'll say!

[Quix]

There was no personal assault, just good advice.

[Quix]

Sounds reasonable, to me.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

None of the verses you quote state that Mary cannot or does not intercede for us.

None of those verses state my schnauzer does not intercede for us either.

Scripture proves in both the negative and affirmative. It tells us there is only one mediator, one redeemer, one helper, one advocate, one intercessor, Jesus Christ.

It also tells us not to pray to anyone else but the Triune God who alone hears our prayers; and not to look for salvation from anyone but the Triune God who alone justifies the ungodly; and not to worship and venerate and kneel down to anyone but the Triune God who alone is deserving of our praise.

Rome errs on all of that big time.

[Quix]

If things should ever change . . .

do you think your schnauzer would take bribes?

[Quix]

Errrr, I ‘misspoke’ . . .

do you think your schnauzer would take . . . encouragements?