Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It is a blasphemous prayer.
Nowhere in Scripture is anyone directed to pray to anyone other than the Triune God.
Thanks for substantiating your point so well, even in the face of all this mindless deflection.
Today, apparently that has changed.
No surprise there.
Next week, it'll probably be back to square one...again.
And now we’re back to the definition of “to pray.”
Why, praytell, is this such a difficult concept?
May God forgive those who believe this lie. Mary did not "cooperate" in Christ's "work of restoring supernatural life to souls."
But we see now where the concept of "co-redeemer" comes from -- directly from the RCC catechism.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him." -- Matthew 6:7-8"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
“Mary did not ‘cooperate’ in Christ’s “work of restoring supernatural life to souls.’”
Perhaps now I’ll receive a reply if I repeat my thought experiment, then:
If the Blessed Virgin had asked Christ to come down from the Cross, and make atonement, say, by shedding a single drop of His infinitely precious blood, would or would not Christ, as a perfect observer of the Law, have been obliged in filial piety to do so?
SANDY: Yes, she did in her assent and submission to the will of God at the anunciation.
John the Baptist agreed and submitted to the will of God when he baptized Jesus.
Did John the Baptist "cooperate" in Christ's "work of restoring supernatural life to souls?"
It’s vain alright.
Doesn’t anyone who submits to the Holy Spirit cooperate?
Or are those saved powerless to resist salvation?
"But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..."
THE REUNION OF CHRISTENDOM
Encyclical Letter of Pope Leo XIII June 20, 1894
In this post I gave a direct quote from the Encyclical "THE REUNION OF CHRISTENDOM" by Pope Leo XIII. I also linked to the site.
I then received the following post #2825 by Petronski: "This the second time tonight I have plugged your quotes into google and been provided with a list of viciously anti-Catholic—and frankly darkly evil—websites."
Any person who had followed my link would have known without question it was honest and legitimate.
To Google the quote and use that as an excuse to attack me is scurrilous and a downright hateful action. Incidentally Google will provide 138,000 hits on that quote and hunting through that list would surely produce some garbage if that's what you are looking for. What would prompt one to do such a thing?
I invite fair minded Catholics to comment.
I want nothing to do with you. Don't ping me at all.
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