Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
“1. There’s no evidence that he had a significant indwelling presence of Holy Spirit or an ear trained to hear Holy Spirit.
2. God is sovereign. He chose to do it the way He did. No biggy. Just God being God.
3. Perhaps in order to give Scriptural evidence of folks traveling IN THE SPIRIT a la Philip.”
Don’t all of these, but especially the last two of these apply equally to the Catholic thesis of the teaching authority of the Church?
It’s one of the “Drinkables” supplements. I think I gave the full name later in the thead.
Thanks for your kind words.
I’m not given to signing RC documents! LOL.
Of course. Of course.
Certainly. Certainly.
Some obvious things can trip me up sometimes.
“From where Prottys sit . . . it’s only a matter of time until yet a new dogma is added to the unchanging dogma of the RC edifice that has existed the last 1600 years—except, of course, in the very flexible calendar of the RC edifice.”
Someone actually interested in the development of Catholic dogma would be rewarded by perusal of “An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine” by John Cardinal Newman.
Then their attacks on the dogma could at least demonstrate the respect to attack the actual process, as opposed to what the attacker might wish it were.
As I’ve stated many times.
I don’t have anything negative to say about Authentic Mary.
I have a lot to say about the RC edifice’s caracitrue it has made of her name and image.
That was a pretty slick slam.
We all have to be good stewards of our time. God be with you.
Happy to be of service.
It’s comforting that my posts are considered so worthless and ineffective by some so outraged at them.
How is Mary a "mother of mercy." Mercy is God's alone to give to whom He will. Read your bible.
(Mary) our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
Pitiful. No king but Christ. No Savior but Christ. No redeemer but Christ. No hope but Christ risen.
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs
And still RCs laughably maintain they do not pray to Mary even in the face of their own words.
Turn then, most gracious Advocate
We have no advocate, no intercessor, no intermediary between God and men but Christ Jesus.
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5
I wonder what the etiology is
of accusations of hate where there is none.
Perhaps the same root of rants against Prottys who dare to think they know more about RC’s worshipping RC’s than the RC’s do . . . thererfore, RC’s feel exceedingly comfortable exercising the double standard to tell Prottys what the Prottys feel toward the RC’s.
Fascinating, this RC obsession with double standards.
I hope you’re well.
Seems like this image/slam was a lot delayed compared to usual.
lol. It doesn’t get any better with time.
Here’s a link to an online version of Newman’s essay, for fair-minded critics of dogma who are on a budget:
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/
It’s not just in airplanes:
Co-stars are subordinate to the stars;
1. a performer, esp. an actor or actress, who shares star billing with another.
Co-conspirators are subordinate to the main conspirators;
a fellow conspirator; associate or collaborator in a conspiracy.
Coadjutors are subordinate to suffragan bishops;
This is correct.
Co-dependents are subordinate to their dependents;
1. Mutually dependent.
we could go on and on, but really there’s little point.
I am not going to play your childish game beyond this point.
“We have no advocate, no intercessor, no intermediary between God and men but Christ Jesus.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” — 1 Timothy 2:5”
But no hope of anyone advocating on our behalf to Jesus, then? Why bother to ask for anyone’s prayers, then?
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