Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Maybe you have some authority for changing His Holy Words into something else?
= = =
LOL.
Changing Scripture; Christ’s words into something else
IS
an RC edifice hobby, habit, compulsion, dogma
Not most Prottys’
and certainly not mine.
IN the case in point—it’s the RC perspective that fantasizes that graduated believers are like angels in all respects vs merely like them in the specific area asked about by the pharisees—not being married and not engaging in sexual relations in heaven.
YET AGAIN, the RC edifice is the party building skyscraper fantasies on half a tooth pick of Sciptural nuance—a nuance quite distant fromt he fantases derrived therefrom.
Indeed.
Including taking on the role as critters from other planets etc.
>>That love without truth is useless and often even destructive sentimentality.
And Truth without love is brutality.<<
I guess that for me, I want to handle correction from the point of view that “Blessed are the Meek”
I’m not a very good apologist, I’m not a learned scholar, but I try to see things from the perspective of the other side. I may feel I’m right, but if I want another to think I am too, I’ll spread some jelly on it.
Maybe that’s just me.
But I love puppies. The only things they have ever done is teach me how to love God better.
If I loved God half as much as my dog loves me, if I were half as patient with my Savior as my dog is with me, if I were as devoted, as dependent, as silent and watchful with Christ as my dogs are with me, as quick to obey and to please, then I am sure I’d be a saint. As it is, I try to learn from them, how to behave toward God.
But I do not correct them with anything remotely resembling sarcasm, yelling, name-calling...if so, they would rightfully not understand.
Make of that what you will.
So unkind of you.
People that don’t love puppies find fault where there is none. Puppies are just themselves, they only learn to respond to how they are treated. Sorry to say, there are people in this world who just don’t like them. Nothing the puppy ever said or did.
I just asked for your interpretation. Thanks.
I’ve done that before, too. And it does make you feel bad!
And with that, I agree!
Just want everyone to know that I “sent God my Christmas list” to sell a King size bed on Craigslist.
Well He made it happen.
One does not get if one does not ask, right!!!!!
Now I have to find a place for my girls to sleep!
(And JA I love the dog analogy)
LOL. I know that only too well myself!
Ahhhh.
That’s the one I’ve been referring to all along.
It’s RC fantasies that read more into that verse than is there. Christ was particularly speaking to the question of the pharisees about marrying and given in marriage and inferred from that—sexual relations. He noted that ON THOSE SCORES, graduated believers are like the angels.
Reading more into those verses than that would be yet another example of the RC edifice fabricating skyscrapers of dogma on a foundation of a toothpick splinter.
Thanks. I have another one: seeking wisdom is like picking blackberries: thorns, bees, spiders, July heat, etc., yet a quart (or gallon) of blackberries is an incomparable prize!
Good point. We really can’t just take one scripture and make a statement about it. We need to know the whole counsel of God and see what other scriptures say about that subject.
—
Wise—a wise Protty habit.
I can agree with that. There are special exceptions to most rules and we hardly ever understand them (smile).
The OT indicates that the flood dealt with the pre-flood such. Some experts say those disembodied fallen angels are now the demons afflicting believers etc.
There is some NT support for such a perspective. I forget the refs.
I might instinctively dislike someone who posted derogatory things about my church.
I am still, after all, human and fallible. Yet I know that even Satan cannot destroy the Holy Catholic Church, so why should I worry what any other human says? Because I love the Church, derogatory things said about it tend to rile me. I should just pray for St. Mary to bless the one who says them.
NO argument about me being confusing at times.
Though I really do try hard not to be.
It is turning me against all protties....
Like I said, that statement is akin to saying "I hate puppies"
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