Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Do you have a biblical source for that rather interesting belief? Or was that a personal revelation?
Ever hear of Satan and the angels that fell from heaven?
Well, it was a quote from Christ. How do you interpret it? I know not all protties interpret the same passages the same way....
I’m blessed to hear you have a hunger for God. We all should. But remember, too, that satan comes as an angel of light and his angels are always counterfeiting the things of God. What you see may not be what you think.
Read my typing . . .
SOME RC’s . . .
SOME folks considering becoming RC’s.
I don’t know individuals’ hearts or minds well enough to classify with any confidence.
Besides, that’s God’s turf.
WHAT passage in Luke. It has a LOT of verses.
Yes, sure. But where did you get the part about them, that run around this sphere trying to interact with humans? Is that from the scripture somewhere? Or your own private revelation from the HS?
I take it that you never read the bible
Good. And we do! How could we not love a mom?
I gave the passage to you in 2279. Here it is again:
Luke 20, 34-38. What’s the matter?
I wouldn’t want to be emphatic in assuming that every last Heavenly resting believers knows 100% absolutely nothing about anything down here, ever. God makes exceptions to even His rules somewhat often.
I do believe that generally, such things are screened out of their awareness affording them maximum joy, peace, rest, serenity at this time.
Works for me!
I never claimed to be an authority on the Scriptures. But I know that protties can read it for themselves, and interpret for themselves, so I’m just wondering where you got that fallen angels are running around trying to “get” humans.
If you don’t know, it’s okay to say so. Because I couldn’t find it.
>>How could we not love a mom?<<
You would have to ask my sisters, they’ll tell you! LOL!
Making it personal again?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .
So this is a case of the RC edifice
yet again
fantasizing and building a skyscraper of dogma on, in this case, half a toothpick.
The Scripture does NOT say
as the ANGELS IN 100% OF ALL RESPECTS etc. etc.
My understanding is that the point was . . . believers in Heaven are not given in marriage and don’t exist as seriously wired seriously sexual beings engaging in all that in Heaven. THAT was the point, imho.
Tacking on all manner of outrageous, outlandish, preposterous assumptions beyond that is absolutely ludicrous, imho.
Exactly right!!!
No offense to Quix, but he CAN be confusing at times.
As I mentioned before, I was just interpreting this on my own, prayerfully, and I didn’t see any qualifiers like what you said, just Christ’s plain words.
So, I guess I’ll have to disagree. But, thanks.
>>How on earth do bright fair-minded RC’s
objectively
tell the difference between
1. a true Heavenly visitation/manifestation
vs
2. a carefully crafted super far advanced technologically staged hoax foisted on the world by other dimensional critters or even ET’s?
Even Scripture warns about angels of light preaching any other ‘gospel.’<<
Hey! That’s the problem with interperting scripture by myself. I’ve read passages and prayed to the Holy Spirit to enlighten me, yet still got it wrong.
I’m not sure that the Holy Spirit even spoke to me. That it wasn’t the evil one as “Angel of Light”.
I’m not that good at picking it out. That’s where my Church comes in!
Christ told Peter that Satan expressed a desire to sift him like wheat.
Paul said we war against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places.
Christ cast out Satan's demons, who even today can possess people
Christ said that they can be cast out, and if the person returns to his old life, they will come back worse than before
And I suppose there's more
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