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The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; rcc; romancatholic
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To: Quix

I agree. If Mary is in heaven, she and others of us who are there (believers) have no idea what’s going on down here. There will be no tears in heaven. If they were aware of what’s going on down here with those they love, they would have tears and plenty of them. And they wouldn’t have much peace and comfort either.


2,241 posted on 06/04/2008 5:53:25 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Well, the passage quotes Christ as saying the “dead” are like angels...and angels interact with humans a lot in the Bible.


2,242 posted on 06/04/2008 5:54:20 PM PDT by Judith Anne (I love all Protestants, and pray that Mary will soften their hearts and open their eyes to the truth)
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To: John Leland 1789
Not responsive, since that poster did not identify his target.

I say again:

They don't change this?

Who are "they?"

2,243 posted on 06/04/2008 5:54:56 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Ya mean like “Supermom?”


2,244 posted on 06/04/2008 5:54:58 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: netmilsmom

And all the worse because of the outrage some RC’s toss out regularly about Prottys daring to infer anything about their inner thoughts, motives, feelings, worship stuff in the face of RC’s declaring they don’t worship Mary.

But Some are quite happy to declare emphatically that some of us Prottys hate individual RC’s even when we insist quite honestly that we have no such hateful feelings toward anyone on FR.

The double standard hypocrisy reeks.


2,245 posted on 06/04/2008 5:55:00 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

Shrewd. 8~)


2,246 posted on 06/04/2008 5:56:01 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Does Mary time-travel as well as levitate and speak from the grave?

Spit the hate forth!

2,247 posted on 06/04/2008 5:56:29 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: netmilsmom

Yes and no.

I think it matters at the level of unsuspecting, poor critical thinkers . . . getting seduced into worshipping Mary to the hazard of their souls.

That matters a lot.


2,248 posted on 06/04/2008 5:56:35 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Judith Anne

Only angels created for the purpose of that interaction.


2,249 posted on 06/04/2008 5:56:44 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: wagglebee

I didn’t take that as personal. I know you don’t think that, but others may. I do not want to leave that kind of impression with anyone.


2,250 posted on 06/04/2008 5:57:40 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Not soon. First they have to finalize the dogma of co-Redeemer.

Then they have to wait a few hundred years to invent another one.


2,251 posted on 06/04/2008 5:58:15 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
But the RCC says Mary is between you and God.

False, again.

Do you ever tire of bearing false witness against the Church founded by Christ? You do so with stunning facility.

2,252 posted on 06/04/2008 5:58:41 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Quix

>>I don’t have any difficulty believing that you understand that well, Dear Heart.<<

Oh thank you so much!!!

>>However, I’m not a blind idiot. It doesn’t take a psychologist to detect dripping bitterness and hate toward individuals. The denial of that on the one hand coupled with absolutely incorrect allegations that Prottys hate individual RC’s . . .

is more than a little much.<<

And we have to admit that past transgressions, real or imagined have something to do with it.

Personally, after the two threads, I’m trying very hard to not personalize and to not take things personally.

I am going to happily assume that each of the Non-Catholics love me and when things get nasty, from either side, it’s the passion of the moment.


2,253 posted on 06/04/2008 5:59:51 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: Quix
It seems like many in the RC camp have decided on playing a two string violin . . . one HATE and the other BIGOTTED.

That comes across to me as a relentless political coersion, manipulation pressure group sort of thing to get as many Protty posts as possible defined as hate or bigotry and maybe eventually banned along with their posters.

Quite a strategy.

Though more than a little insulting of the RM and the powers that be regarding THEIR perceptiveness and intelligence. Lots of folks are not near as blind as some of the RC’s seem to habitually be or be used to.

Gosh, I can sure feel the love pouring forth out of that post...it's amazing!

2,254 posted on 06/04/2008 6:00:07 PM PDT by Judith Anne (I love all Protestants, and pray that Mary will soften their hearts and open their eyes to the truth)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

All this being said, I do believe there are people who have the gift of healing, which God did give to the church. But even they have to listen carefully to what God is saying and who to lay hands on, etc. Not everyone will be healed, as we know, for whatever reason. Sometimes it’s our own bitterness, anger, and unforgiveness; sometimes God has a purpose in allowing His grace to shine through that person. I had a wonderful beloved friend who had ALS. Her eyes shone with the Love of Jesus. It was a shekinah glory. She comforted us!


2,255 posted on 06/04/2008 6:01:25 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: mgist

Have you ever seen the one in Egypt?

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWsnzV6lUo

It was televised!


2,256 posted on 06/04/2008 6:01:39 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: 1000 silverlings
Only angels created for the purpose of that interaction.

Really? then do they die? What's the scriptural evidence for that? Just curious....

2,257 posted on 06/04/2008 6:01:44 PM PDT by Judith Anne (I love all Protestants, and pray that Mary will soften their hearts and open their eyes to the truth)
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To: wagglebee

Are you kidding me?


2,258 posted on 06/04/2008 6:02:11 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: netmilsmom

Thy Kingdom Come!


2,259 posted on 06/04/2008 6:02:30 PM PDT by mgist (Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hear)
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To: netmilsmom

Hmmmm

Maybe I have to start a

Quix willy nilly lexicon

—RC CAMP
—RC EDIFICE
—RC CLUB
—RC DENOMINATION
—RC IN-GROUP
—RC GROUP
—RC PONTIFICATORS
—RCers
—RC FOLKS
—RC CHARACTERS
—RC FACTION
—RC TROOPS
—RC . . .

all more or less equal depending on the size fantasized at the time.


2,260 posted on 06/04/2008 6:03:43 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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