The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[wagglebee]

It is known that the bible doesn't give her this credit

Have Protestants now redacted the first chapter of the Gospel of Saint Luke?

[Petronski]

Are you suggesting that the Blessed Mother DID NOT have the option of declining?

I was once expressly told this by a Calvinist.

So serious an error as this makes the Holy Spirit a rapist, and Mary a broodmare.

The idea is almost physically sickening to me.

[wagglebee]

Of course if the Blessed Mother was incapable of declining this would mean that she also lacked free will and would therefore be incapable of committing sin.

[Petronski]

Are you suggesting that the Blessed Mother DID NOT have the option of declining?

Hmmmm. Time for Team Geneva to regroup and reconsider.

[Petronski]

Try this again:

Of course if the Blessed Mother was incapable of declining this would mean that she also lacked free will and would therefore be incapable of committing sin.

Hmmmm. Time for Team Geneva to regroup and reconsider.

[OLD REGGIE]

What a minute, what country is this?

I'm pinging an actual lawyer to see what he thinks about this...

Aren't you the guy who just invited me to join your super secret "make them crazy" society? Not good.

You should put up some seemingly sweet operative like Marysecretary as your "front person".

[netmilsmom]

>>You have not differed with Catholicism at all here. Good job! <<

Ooooo I think you have gotten through to someone!!!!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Then please identify who "the woman" is in Genesis 3:15.

Well, it sure isn't Mary.

As James McCarthy writes in his excellent book, "The Gospel According to Rome..."

Genesis 3:15

Some Catholic scholars point to Genesis 3:15 in support of the Church's teaching of Mary as the co-redeemer. In many Roman Catholic versions of the Bible, such as the Douay Rheims, the standard Roman Catholic English Bible until the middle of the twentieth century, God's curse upon Satan reads:

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. - - Genesis 3:15 (Douay Rheims)

Based on this verse, many statues and paintings of Mary show her crushing a serpent under her foot--a graphic representation of her role as co-redeemer. This imagery is also found in Catholic documents:

Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot. - - Ineffabilis Deus(19)

This imagery, however, is based upon a faulty translation of Genesis 3:15 from the Latin texts of the Vulgate Bible, the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church since the fourth century. Until recently, the Latin Vulgate served as the base text for all Roman Catholic translations, including the English Douay Rheims Bible.

In the Hebrew text, the original language of the Old Testament, the subject of Genesis 3:15 is masculine, not feminine.

Therefore, rather than reading "she shall crush thy head" (Genesis 3:15, Douay Rheims), the verse should be translated "He shall bruise you on the head" (Genesis 3:15, NASB). The verse is prophetically speaking of Christ's victory over Satan, not Mary's.

Though recent Roman Catholic translations have corrected the error, Roman Catholic theology remains the same."

So we see once again that the RCC blasphemously puts Mary in the office belonging to Jesus Christ alone, all the way from the very beginning.

Read the following excerpt by McCarthy...

HAIL, MARY, CO-REDEEMER?
Good News for Catholics

[DungeonMaster]

It's a reference to Mary's being spoken of as the New Eve -- "and Adam called the name of his wife Eve (Hebrew Chavah, because she was the mother of all the living."

Then how did that title get transferred to Mary?

[DungeonMaster]

She isn't credited with ANYTHING other than CONSENTING to God's request. Are you suggesting that the Blessed Mother DID NOT have the option of declining?

How many other human choices SEEM to have been necessary to bring the Lord to the Earth? What if Mary's mom didn't...? What if Mary's dad didn't...? What if Mary's grand parents didn't....?

So by examining these things without regard for God's soverign nature, we are crediting man with something that God had done. God is soverign! Does that phrase ring a bell at all? If that is the case how do we credit man for things that are God's? We do it willfully in an attempt to elevate someone other than God.

[DungeonMaster]

Catholics are not hamstrung by the non-Scriptural error known as sola scriptura.

Translation: "We don't need no stinking bible".

[Petronski]

McCarthy seems to be repeating an old lie, one that has even crept into new translations of the Bible itself.

“Good News for Catholics” would never survive “truth in advertising” scrutiny.

[DungeonMaster]

Perhaps you might consider reading from the source, for which a link was provided. It might help.

Do you believe that by reading that I will see that it is justifiable scripture and belongs in my bible?

[Petronski]

Translation: "We don't need no stinking bible".

You are bearing false witness, and quite shabbily at that.

[DungeonMaster]

Have Protestants now redacted the first chapter of the Gospel of Saint Luke?

Have RCs suddenly found scripture that makes Mary able to:

Hear prayers, provide special intercession as the Mother of the Son of God, that she is the Mother of God, that she is the mother of the church, that she is the Queen of Heaven, that she was immaculately conceived, that she was ever virgin, the dispenser of all grace, that she gave birth while keeping a hymen intact, or that she is our co-redeemer, that she appears to people with messages, that she performs miracles from heaven, and has the following names and titles:

[Petronski]

I didn’t see an answer to her question in there.

[Petronski]

...that she gave birth while keeping a hymen intact...

What is this perverted protestant obsession on this topic? Of all the crass, horrible trains of thought...that level of evil boggles the mind.

[maryz]

I’ll bet you don’t get Midrash either . . .

[wagglebee]

While I admire your ability to cut and paste, you still did not answer the question I asked. I am well aware of the controversy defining the word "she" and I specifically avoided it.

But, to make it easier for you to answer, we will take Catholic translations OUT of the equation. Here is Genesis 3:115 from various Protestant translations (added emphasis is mine):

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (KJV)

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel." (NIV)

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.” (NKJV)

Hopefully this is sufficient to satisfy you; so, will you please identify "the woman" in this verse.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

DR.E.: God understands what we need before we even ask. God hears all prayers, but He knows our prayers before we say them. He knows what we require before we ask. He knows what will become of us even as we pray for something to occur or not occur.

I find it astounding a Christian could disagree with that statement. Read your Bible and learn the truth.

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7

---

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him." -- Matthew 6:7-8

Again, the humility thing seems to be an issue for some of my separated brethren.

LOL. It's not the reformed who disbelieve God's word or think they know more than He does or presume to take the glory that belongs to God alone and carelessly disperse it among the creatures as if it were their own.

Per your dismissal of my statement...

Does God not understand what we need before we even ask?

Does God not hear all prayers?

Does God not know our prayers before we say them?

Does God not know what we require before we ask?

Does God not know what will become of us even as we pray for something to occur or not occur?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." -- Jeremiah 10:23