I subscribe to the Holy word of Elohim.b'SHEM Yah'shuaI do not subscribe to Pagan babblings of the Roman church.
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
It's a reference to Mary's being spoken of as the New Eve -- "and Adam called the name of his wife Eve (Hebrew Chavah, because she was the mother of all the living."
How old is the oldest manuscript of the Septuagint?
Let's rephrase your question for consistency sake.
How old is the oldest complete manuscript of the Septuagint?
I'll leave this to you. My answer might vary from "there is none" to "the 15th century.
Why is that, when New Testament quotations of the Old Testament include material in which the Septuagint and the Masoretic versions differ, the Septuagint is overwhelmingly preferred
Many hours could be spent on this subject and I am not qualified, nor interested, in doing the study required to rebut your one sided appraisal.
A more important question might be "The Apocrypha is never quoted." Why?
I read what you wrote:
We say "Thank you, God, for healing us." And we say "thank you" to our friends for their caring concern.
Nothing there about thanking them for their prayers, only for their concern.
Do the prayers of others heal you, Petronski? Or does God heal you?
God does. Please don't insinuate Catholicism teaches anything else.
Thank you for confirming that you see the Holy Trinity as "Pagan babbling".
I think it is important that Protestants understand that you are just as much at odds with them as you are with Catholics.
You seem to be reading my mind.
So God is influenced by the quantity of other people's flattering opinions of you in determining the course of your life?
No wonder Rome preaches a works-based salvation where salvation has very little to do with Christ's work on the cross, and everything to do with our own filthy rags.
Flee from idolatry. Most especially from the idolatry of believing ourselves to be our own god.
I have no issue with any such idolatry. Thanks for the good advice, though.
It is entirely possible the entire content of the removed post was offensive.
One more than one occassion I have been told I should leave a Catholic/Protestant food fight because I, as a Unitarian, don't belong to the club.
It is possible, though, that I might have suggested to a very unhappy poster that they'd probably be happier elsewhere. :)
Not true.
Not true.
No, we are talking about prayer.
I've done NOTHING of the sort.
Here is your post:
I subscribe to the Holy word of Elohim.b'SHEM Yah'shuaI do not subscribe to Pagan babblings of the Roman church.
I asked if you believed in the Trinity, you referred to "Roman babbling."
If the question referenced the Trinity, it is PRESUMED (especially when you repeat the question) that the answer is also in reference to the Trinity.
I apologize if it offends you to have me point out that these beliefs put you at odds with Protestants, but this is the truth. There is NO DIFFERENCE between Catholic and Protestant beliefs or teachings regarding the Trinity.
lol. I've noticed this is the usual response from Catholics when they have no real answer.
Here's a tip -- God knows the difference between dead and alive because it is God who gives us life and who determines the moment of our birth and our death.
"And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation" -- Acts 17:26
And at that moment of our death, we will either behold His face in glory by His grace alone through Jesus Christ who has acquitted us of our sins, or we will be lost forever by the condemnation of our own fallen nature.
Well, there's two pounds of psychological projection in a one pound bag. That response IS my answer. Sorry that you don't like it.
That's a fantasy concocted by men who hope others won't actually read the Bible.
LOL
Aw, how nice. Too bad I said nothing to contradict that.
And at that moment of our death...
I know that. You should try telling this to the protties who say Mary is dead.
It is the writing of men far more scholarly--and far more Godly in their scholarship--than Jean Cauvin.
Then please identify who "the woman" is in Genesis 3:15.
That's a fantasy concocted by men who hope others won't actually read the Bible.
The ONLY "fantasy" is this strange notion that Catholics have EVER been encouraged not to read the Bible.
Seems to me that anyone who believes in the Holy Trinity would be happy—even anxious—to say so.
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