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The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; rcc; romancatholic
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To: Marysecretary
My Catholic priest reads directly from the bible at every mass . What exactly do you mean, "just listening to the church." Have you ever been to a Catholic mass? It is the continuation of His Last Supper. It may not be fun and exciting, but it is certainly bible based and spiritually deep. To be honest with you, I've been a Catholic all my life, and didn't read anything from the Pope until I became an adult. The Encyclicals are absolutely beautifull. I missed out on a lot.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

1,661 posted on 06/03/2008 5:34:57 PM PDT by mgist (Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hear)
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To: netmilsmom

No? They have the ‘blood’ of one of their parents don’t they?


1,662 posted on 06/03/2008 5:35:39 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: papertyger; Philo-Junius
Now here's an opportunity for some real bridge-building. Will you take it? Will you acknowledge you're accusing the poster of slur against the KJV, when any normative reading of what was said would recognize the poster was mocking the uneducated, dogmatic, devotees of a particular translation of the Bible?

All you have to do is admit you accused him of something he didn't do, and we'll know you are more interested in truth than "winning."

Will you admit you are ignoring his criticism of certain people deserving of criticism, and accusing him of criticizing something that would degrade his credibility if true?

Will you admit that Philo-Junius has not taken advantage of the opportunity to explain the purpose to me?

I am perfectly willing to listen to the poster.

Are you willing to admit you may be mistaken in your interpretation?

BTW It was an opportunity for you to ping Philo-Junius as a step in your "bridge-building" rather than posting a veiled command that I "admit" I am all wrong.

1,663 posted on 06/03/2008 5:36:36 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: mgist
These people tended to mix there native traditions, which were certainly pagan, with Catholism. Similar tendencies happened in Africa, Asia, and the Americas. I can see how some would see that influence of pagan culture, mixed with their limited Catholic knowledge of the time, and misunderstand Catholic teaching. Some of that mixture of culture and religion exsists to this day. I've seen some distortion of Catholic beliefs in Cuban households. I will certainly, lovingly remind them, that it is NOT Catholic. Those instances are really the exception. The Cathechism of the Catholic Church should clear up any of those doubts. I don't think too many of those who slander the "RC" have bothered to read the Cathechism.

***************

You are quite right, friend. It is a work in progress for the Church, a constant struggle.

1,664 posted on 06/03/2008 5:36:37 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Petronski

Yeah, riiiigggghhhhhttttt.


1,665 posted on 06/03/2008 5:38:08 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: netmilsmom
Even if it is very evident.

VERY EVIDENT? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?
1,666 posted on 06/03/2008 5:38:55 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: Judith Anne

We don’t ‘hate religious authority.’ Our churches are built on that. We just preach Jesus and it’s enough. We don’t need a lot of the fluff that goes along with the RCC. HE is our salvation, not Mary, not infant baptism, not the Eucharist nor any of the saints. Stick to HIM, Judith Anne. He’s your pathway to salvation.


1,667 posted on 06/03/2008 5:41:31 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: big'ol_freeper

They aren’t falsehoods.


1,668 posted on 06/03/2008 5:42:43 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Petronski

It boils down to ego, plain and simple.


1,669 posted on 06/03/2008 5:43:38 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: big'ol_freeper

The church founded by Jesus Christ is the entire Body of Christ; not one denomination or edifice, but every single one of us who professes and confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.


1,670 posted on 06/03/2008 5:44:33 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary

Glad you agree.

Get a new keyboard.


1,671 posted on 06/03/2008 5:44:38 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: maryz

ROFL


1,672 posted on 06/03/2008 5:44:41 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: OLD REGGIE
Will you admit that Philo-Junius has not taken advantage of the opportunity to explain the purpose to me?

No. I have no familiarity with what you were discussing prior to his KJV comment.

Are you willing to admit you may be mistaken in your interpretation?

No. There is no interpretation. There may be fault in that what you wrote does not reflect what you mean, but my reading of what you wrote is not flawed.

BTW It was an opportunity for you to ping Philo-Junius as a step in your "bridge-building" rather than posting a veiled command that I "admit" I am all wrong.

This isn't about Philo, it's about you.

1,673 posted on 06/03/2008 5:45:00 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: trisham

That’s nonsense.


1,674 posted on 06/03/2008 5:45:12 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Marysecretary

You said: They aren’t falsehoods.

Yes they are.


1,675 posted on 06/03/2008 5:45:26 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: papertyger; netmilsmom
No, and until you can find a Scriptural passage that says the Holy Spirit would make all things "abundantly clear" to you, the question fails by your own standard.

Now this is a great opportunity for you to do some "fence-mending" with your fellow Catholic, netmilsmom, whose comment I paraphrased. See #1269.

You also have an opportunity to be as smarmy with her as you have been with me. Your choice.

1,676 posted on 06/03/2008 5:46:06 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: AnalogReigns

You do a masterful job, imho.

Thanks.


1,677 posted on 06/03/2008 5:46:08 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary
The church founded by Jesus Christ is the entire Body of Christ...headed by His chosen successor, Pope Peter I.
1,678 posted on 06/03/2008 5:46:22 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Mad Dawg

Hmm, seems like that road goes both ways, Mad Dawg.


1,679 posted on 06/03/2008 5:46:35 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Judith Anne

No, no, they never call in re-enforcements.


1,680 posted on 06/03/2008 5:47:19 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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