Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html
No? They have the ‘blood’ of one of their parents don’t they?
I am perfectly willing to listen to the poster.
Are you willing to admit you may be mistaken in your interpretation?
BTW It was an opportunity for you to ping Philo-Junius as a step in your "bridge-building" rather than posting a veiled command that I "admit" I am all wrong.
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You are quite right, friend. It is a work in progress for the Church, a constant struggle.
Yeah, riiiigggghhhhhttttt.
We don’t ‘hate religious authority.’ Our churches are built on that. We just preach Jesus and it’s enough. We don’t need a lot of the fluff that goes along with the RCC. HE is our salvation, not Mary, not infant baptism, not the Eucharist nor any of the saints. Stick to HIM, Judith Anne. He’s your pathway to salvation.
They aren’t falsehoods.
It boils down to ego, plain and simple.
The church founded by Jesus Christ is the entire Body of Christ; not one denomination or edifice, but every single one of us who professes and confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
Glad you agree.
Get a new keyboard.
ROFL
No. I have no familiarity with what you were discussing prior to his KJV comment.
Are you willing to admit you may be mistaken in your interpretation?
No. There is no interpretation. There may be fault in that what you wrote does not reflect what you mean, but my reading of what you wrote is not flawed.
BTW It was an opportunity for you to ping Philo-Junius as a step in your "bridge-building" rather than posting a veiled command that I "admit" I am all wrong.
This isn't about Philo, it's about you.
That’s nonsense.
You said: They aren’t falsehoods.
Yes they are.
You also have an opportunity to be as smarmy with her as you have been with me. Your choice.
You do a masterful job, imho.
Thanks.
Hmm, seems like that road goes both ways, Mad Dawg.
No, no, they never call in re-enforcements.
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