Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
After much prayer and fasting, God began to show him . . . that people stay ill because they refuse to live according to God’s instructions.
IOWs, it is all their fault that they are ill. And the 5% who are healed, I guess they really healed themselves by changing their lifestyles?
Remember when Rosie O’Donnell said “liars get cancer?”
***Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure!***
Nice to know that anyone posting anything of personal experience is welcomed by you, and yet, anything of my own personal experience is mocked.
Fabulous. Hypocrisy becomes no-one, least of all you.
Just curious, sir. Why are you posting to yourself?
***you and I both know that some folks are experts at
blackwashing Prottys
and
white washing the philosophical Holy Grail of elitist clubs.***
Protestants do the best at representing themselves; and do you mean the select elite elect when you refer to the Holy Grail?
***Haha! Let me tell you what I found out! Henry W. Wright is 58 years old, single, and is a Capricorn. Guess where I learned it! His MySpace page.
Yes, it’s THAT Henry W. Wright. Author of “Be In Health.”
Honestly, what a ratty way to make a living.
Sick.***
Cheers and applause. The best way to deal with the lord of this world and his minions are with facts and the Church. There are many who are unwitting allies.
It just shows the unmitigated ego of Rosie and this author.
He would usurp God’s power and judgement, while limiting God’s power to his own understanding and apologize for God by making excuses for God’s lack of working through him.
I can guarantee that God is not making excuses and I know that God can heal you wherever you are and wherever your heart is.
I guess Paul wouldn’t change his life either.
***That’s because Jesus never said that directly. It was St. Paul that directed us to pray continuously. Is that what you mean by repeating like a heathen?
It’s amazing how one can read a sentence and not see all the words. Let me help you.
“repeat memorized prayers over and over like the heathen...”
Do you see it now? ***
I do; thank you for clarifying.
You claim that when I say a memorized prayer, unlike mindless blatherings of stream-of-consciousness prattling, I am a pagan. Look everyone, I am an Old Reggie - defined pagan.
Our Father WHo Are in Heaven;
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temption,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Our Father WHo Are in Heaven;
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temption,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Our Father WHo Are in Heaven;
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temption,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Our Father WHo Are in Heaven;
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temption,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.Our Father WHo Are in Heaven;
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temption,
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.
I think that I’ll really dive in to the ranks of the pagans, when I pray the Nicene Creed next.
Oh, oh, oh. The Gloria after that.
***Do you understand the difference between paganism and pagan practices?
Asperger Syndrome ***
So the only difference between paganism and pagan practices is Asperger Syndrome?
Are you okay?
***Very few understand Canon Law and the few “experts” constantly disagree with each other.***
Name the experts and their disagreements.
I think the perspective is
GOD’S PERSPECTIVE.
ping
Over the centuries all the words of the Bible have been repeated over and over and over again, a lot of times from memory. I suppose that was repeating like a heathen according to his opinion.
I have told people in my family over and over and over again that I love them. I have those 3 little words memorized, I say them to Jesus, I guess those are vain words too.
Have you ever witnessed, or been made aware of, a spontaneous remission of a "fatal" condition outside of Lourdes or the like?
Don’t forget the oft repeated and never ceasing:
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come.”
So now it is a physical, defined illness that makes you pagan.
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