FEEL THE LOVE!
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
THE OUTRAGEOUSLY THOROUGHLY WRONG AND INACCURATE AS WELL AS INSULTING ASSUMPTIONS ARE SHOWING AGAIN!
The good pastor has thousands of cases cured from incurable diseases with medical verification.
Many incurable diseases that he’s been successful with, by God’s Grace, have been rare diseases that the medical establishment had absolutely no help for.
My housemate went to his week long seminar.
He’s one of the most humble ministers so anointed by Holy Spirit that I’ve ever been around or in contact with.
He started out fussing with God that only 5% of those he prayed for were healed.
After much prayer and fasting, God began to show him . . . that people stay ill because they refuse to live according to God’s instructions.
He has had so much experience correlating things now, that he can usually tell what sort of relationship/spiritual problem is behind the blockage of healing.
He has even found that USUALLY (not always) breast cancer correlates as follows . . .
Cancer in the left breast correlates most often with bitterness against one’s own mother
and
Cancer in the right breast correlates most often with bitterness against mother-in-law.
MD’s have worked with him checking their own caseload and have verified the correlation. To wit:
“tumors that form in the right breast is bitterness between that female and another female that is a non-genetic family member like mother-in-law or some other person maybe or of the women in the church or something. But tumors that form in the elft breast are against a genetic female like mother or sister and they have found tha 100% of the time.” p E42
There was a time where the good pastor was speaking in a church. At the end of the service, a woman came up to him after the service who had a very large malignant tumor that was to be surgically removed the next day.
Given the type and location of the tumor, Pastor Wright asked her if she had some specific relationship problem, bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness etc. The woman immediately said yes.
He noted that he would not pray for her unless she went aside with God for several minutes and decided with God whether or not she was willing to make the relationships right because it was the Godly way to live—not just to get healed. If so, come back and he would pray for her.
She did so. He prayed for her.
The next day the woman went for surgery. Preliminary prep indicated the tumor was gone. More thorough checking discovered that not only was the tumor totally gone . . . there was not any hint of her EVER having had any cancer in her body at all. There were not any markers in her blood—no hint at all in terms of any medical measure that she had EVER had ANY cancer.
The good pastor has ministered miraculous healing by Holy Spirit thousands of times—many with instant results. Many take ‘walking out’ in dialogue with God overcoming the spiritual/relationship blockages.
I have extended this information in good faith and good attitude out of love and a good heart for all.
Those who wish to throw rocks at the good pastor and his ministry will be throwing rocks at God’s servant. God Himself will have an appropriate response in His way and His time.
Of that, I am 100% certain.
I understand how you are trying to TWIST the words, but nonetheless, Newman did not say what you claim.
Do you understand the difference between paganism and pagan practices?
I understand how you are trying to TWIST the words, but nonetheless, Newman did not say what you claim.
Do you understand the difference between paganism and pagan practices?
Priceless response.
Go look up your lecture about nosy questions concerning enat's credentials, then apply it to yourself.
Perhaps you could consult a specialist.
It indicates severe anti-Catholic bias.
Please continue pinging me in this discussion. I would love to see the Biblical proof that Mary was sinless.
There’s a big slice of creepiness right there. LOL
Being a Baptist and having attended several different churches there have been times where we've gotten pretty worked up! I think the key is are we attending services strictly for that emotional moment, or is it to worship God. I don't see a lot of difference in the former between that and the Maryolatry that you see in the third world and in the conditioned responses of RC's to go to Mary before Jesus.
We would be denied any closeness to God unless we travel through their system.
If they can get people to believe this they then have real power over them. Thank God the dark ages are over and we can go to the Scriptures and see it is the one on one relationship with our Saviour Jesus Christ that saves us, reconciles us, and creates the closeness to God.
I have no idea who puts lots of Facebooks tuff up . . . about him or anyone else.
interesting placement of such profound trust! LOL.
I didn’t place any trust or claim he posted it.
I said it was creepy, because it is.
You presumed the rest.
and
Cancer in the right breast correlates most often with bitterness against mother-in-law.
I am a retired nurse. I have taken care of a lot of cancer patients, including breast cancer patients, including those who survived and those who did not. That is the biggest pile of hooey I have ever read on the internet. That is so disgusting, I wonder someone hasn't arrested this charlatan for criminally exploiting the sick. I have never known any doctor who gave any credence to anything resembling this unmitigated, ridiculous snake oil quackery.
Anyone who associates him/herself with this exploitive and cruel so-called minister is tarred with the same brush. That someone who purports to have a PhD in psychology grants this devastating psychopathy any credulity whatsoever is unbelievable.
Do you know what the criteria for miraculous healing is, in the Catholic Church? At Lourdes, for instance?
Get back to me when you look it up.
"repeat memorized prayers over and over like the heathen..."
Do you see it now?
"repeat memorized prayers over and over like the heathen..."
Do you see it now?
("Is when" in quotes because it's guaranteed to set your English teacher's teeth on edge.)
Maybe it's just funny to me because of the lady who told it, who was one of the most delightfully wacky people I've ever known, and very devout.
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