Should one have a problem with trying to be a better person, or taking inventory to which path they most emulate?
I am thankful to have something to gage myself by it is a handy guildline
Posted on 04/29/2008 6:06:04 AM PDT by restornu
Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.
C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.
Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."
Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.
"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.
The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.
Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.
Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
you are wrong it was I who ask them to resort the thread!
Re: Ancient writings support LDS doctrine and teachings
To Religion Moderator | 04/29/2008 7:38:39 AM PDT sent
I guess I was too slow in my reply but I was willing to go along with this decission. I was in the middle of replying but got side tract in spelling and finding other things.
Was it me or something else?
If it was me you can return the thread!
I understand and thank you for your patience’s.
Augustine merits should be discussed if they are valid out not because it changed the whole out come of religion today!
Just where did Augustine get his authority to dismiss revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
The Lord withdrew these ordinances from the earth but the Lord never deem them as unnecessary.
#1 - Just when exactly (be specific) did Augustine ever dismiss any legitimate revelation????
#2 - Where did Joseph Smith get his authority to lie, steal other men's wives, create a fraudulent revelation in old gaelic and then call it 'reformed egyptian'?
#3 - Where do YOU get YOUR authority to claim above conman is a prophet of God???
Should one have a problem with trying to be a better person, or taking inventory to which path they most emulate?
I am thankful to have something to gage myself by it is a handy guildline
Hit the post button too soon. Smith's mistake in translating it "You need more wives" is understandable considering the morphology of the characters involved and the extent of his pseudounderstanding of the paradyme he was working under. Thus it is perfectly underestandable that he mistranslated "Buy more" as "you need more" as the reformed character for "acquire" in the neutral sense is additional or increasing. The error in translating "Ovaltine" is a little more problamatical. As one regresses throught the thought processes Smith must have used late at night one quickly notices that reformed characters transliterated as "Oval" are one stroke away from "ovary". Now granted, this stroke could have actually been a scratch on the golden plates which the peep stone malfunctioned while translating. "tine" is a suffix often used to refer to people - so Smith transliterated ovary-people into "wives", since to tellogy the were worthless otherwise - hence reinforcing the mistranslated 'buy'. I hope that clears it up for you.
And...what have these ponderings produced in way of telling us which specific parts of the Book of Mormon are imperfect?
The Book of Mormon never claim to be perfect only the Most correct book!
Mormon 9
32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.
35 And these things are written that we may rid our garments of the blood of our brethren, who have dwindled in unbelief.
36 And behold, these things which we have desired concerning our brethren, yea, even their restoration to the knowledge of Christ, are according to the prayers of all the saints who have dwelt in the land.
37 And may the Lord Jesus Christ grant that their prayers may be answered according to their faith; and may God the Father remember the covenant which he hath made with the house of Israel; and may he bless them forever, through faith on the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
No it was those who adopted the ideas of Plato, Empedocles and Xenophanes. Over the words of Christ.
The Hellenization of post apostolic Christianity is well established fact. Many modern Christians assume it was a good thing, but think of it like this...
If the US govt. (in all it's liberal glory, even those "moderate" republicans) plsu a bunch of University intellectuals took over the church in the US. How pure do you think the Doctrine would stay? Then mix it for a few hundred years.
>>The ‘word’ triune may not be there but I assure you the ‘concept’ is!
Only if you filter it through the intellectual framework of the Philosophers. To put it very bluntly, the liberal intellectual boy-lovers hijaked Christian understanding of the true nature of Christ.
>>>>The word ‘mormon’ can’t be found anywhere in the Greek text. But the word ‘mormo’ can be found in Anton LaFey’s satanic Bible.
Nobody claims "Mormon" is in the greek text making your argument null (a straw man). Funny you bring up "LaVey" as he took "Mormo" from Greek mythology, Mormo was a goddess who bit bad children, said to have been a consort of the goddess Hecate. LaVey got the word the same way we got "Homouosis" from the Greeks.
The Book of Mormon never claim to be perfect only the Most correct book!
Ether 12
22 And it is by faith that my fathers have obtained the promise that these things should come unto their brethren through the Gentiles; therefore the Lord hath commanded me, yea, even Jesus Christ.
23 And I said unto him: Lord, the Gentiles will mock at these things, because of our weakness in writing; for Lord thou hast made us mighty in word by faith, but thou hast not made us mighty in writing; for thou hast made all this people that they could speak much, because of the Holy Ghost which thou hast given them;
24 And thou hast made us that we could write but little, because of the awkwardness of our hands. Behold, thou hast not made us mighty in writing like unto the brother of Jared, for thou madest him that the things which he wrote were mighty even as thou art, unto the overpowering of man to read them.
25 Thou hast also made our words powerful and great, even that we cannot write them; wherefore, when we write we behold our weakness, and stumble because of the placing of our words; and I fear lest the Gentiles shall mock at our words.
26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.
29 And I, Moroni, having heard these words, was comforted, and said: O Lord, thy righteous will be done, for I know that thou workest unto the children of men according to their faith;
Good luck getting an answer!
Mormons are really weird.
Wrong. Christ claimed equality with the Father (John 8:58) among many other places. So the triunity of God is not 'over the words of Christ' it IS the Word of Christ. Those who reject this truth of the true nature of God are the spirit of Antichrist. You didn't read my links did you????
The truth is Mormonism more closely adopts the ideas of Plato, etc. since it is a form of gnosticism - early heresies.
It is also a well established fact that Joseph Smith is a false prophet, a liar, and a fraud. Ergo, ANY other teaching that comes from the LDS is equally false, INCLUDING your false ideas regarding 'the hellenization of post apostolic Christianity'.
liberal intellectual boy-lovers hijaked Christian understanding of the true nature of Christ.
The only ones 'hijacking' the true nature of Christ is you and your fellow Mormons, at your own peril, following after the false teachings and dictates of a false prophet, and the fraudulent plagiarized monstrosity known collectively as the "Book of Mormon".
....as he took "Mormo" from Greek mythology, Mormo was a goddess who bit bad children, said to have been a consort of the goddess Hecate.
Exactly. Yet more proof of the 'real origins' of the LDS. Both Mormo and Hecate were gods of the underworld with a preoccupation with the dead, i.e, baptism for the dead. Sound familiar???? Coincidence?????? I think not.
LOL! Its so correct it undergoes constant changes. Its so correct its now been proven that 'reformed egyptian' is actually gaelic. Its so correct that it was plagiarized. I can go on and on here.............
Love the new tagline, Laz.
yes grammatical and nothing was plagiarized and in some case more revelation was completed that the Bible we have today somehow was not recorded!
When exactly did hellenization start, and define what you mean by it more precisely.
So resty, what do YOU do with the evidence the BOM is gaelic shorthand and NOT 'reformed egyptian'? The evidence of plagiarism (and yes it's there) is the least of your problems.......
They are pretty good. They came to our church last year in Texas.
You are welcome to hold on to your tendentiousness.
Have a nice day!:)
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