A ping to some of the protestant brethren....
Mary is worthy of great honor, but she is not deity. We have the very clear instruction in the bible of Who we should pray to and it isn’t Mary.
Ping to NYer.
Catholics do not worship Mary.
I am not Catholic,...but...I'd feel much more confident about the future of our nation if Catholics would really BE Catholic. ( That includes all of our Catholic legislators.)
Personally, I am not going to be picky picky about what Catholic believe regarding Mary.
I think the Amish are “quaint” in their beliefs. Well...I think Catholics are “quaint” too with regard to Mary. We would all get along better as Christians if we took that attitude.
Catholicism does not teach the worship of Mary.
The author is a liar, but he does play The Game very well.
Interesting post considering last night I was with a group of Southern Baptists (including a pastor) that went to see this...
http://www.entertainmentevents.com/shows/late_catechism.asp?bhcp=1
Very funny!
Forerunner denies the Trinity, and is sabbatarian. Just saying.
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
The recent threads on FR that criticize or openly attack the catholic faith and those who follow it are distressing and ill-advised. Some experts, often protestants, will take the Bible as a book of quotes ready to apply and shape to make a particular argument and spread division, hatred and regression that is a detriment to us all as a society. This is quite distressing when we, as a presumably conservative group (I am speaking of FR as a whole), need to work for unity rather than division among the Christian believers as well as conservative Jews (there is a small but strong group) and others among us who are stronly opposed to the liberal doctrines. These “experts” are no better than politicians who use social and economic class, race, gender, etc. to divide rather than unify us by the strong common beliefs that join us - we know which political class does this most effectively.
When I attend catholic mass on Sunday I pray with the entire congregation the Liturgy of the Word: “We believe in one God, the father, the almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one lord, Jesus Christ, eternally begotten of the father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God. Begotten, not made, one in being with the father, through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.”
We do not worship Mary. When we kneel as a congregation during the liturgy of the eucharist, we worship Jesus in the remembrance of the Last Supper, and the promise of eternal life through His sacrifice. We do not worship Mary.
Mary has a beautiful and we believe, very blessed role in our faith. God chose her to serve in life as mother of Jesus Christ and Himself created our Saviour’s life within her. Still, we do not worship her, we worship God as holy trinity, as we pray together as a congregation.
To what purpose is the spreading of this divisive anti-catholic polemic?
I love Catholics, but I hate their sin of over-venerating Mary.
Most of what is in this article are things that I have seen, and form many of my own opinions and observations about Catholics and Mary.
I don't get it. Probably never will. I don't understand the inordinate amount of attention given to someone who is mentioned only a half dozen or so times in the gospels and nowhere else. Jesus shows no special attention to Mary over anyone else. In fact, in the synoptics, when Mary shows up with his brothers because they think Jesus' has gone off the deep end, and people tell Jesus his brothers and his mother are outside, Jesus doesn't rush out to her or show her any special deference, he says:
(NIV) Matthew 12:48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
He shows no special regard for his mother over anyone else or that she has shown up.
So, anyway, while I love much about my Catholic brothers and sisters, I unfortunately have to conclude that much of what this article says is true, in my view, and certainly the ordered list at the top, of the order of devotion in the church seems to fit with what I've observed, too.
I often wonder, why can't we all just get back to Jesus and give him the attention and focus that he is deserving of from every Christian? I mean, I'm sure he'd be happy that people love his mother, but she's not worthy of anymore attention or devotion than any other Biblical figure. Just focus on the real thing and stop with all the extraneous is my thought.
You wrote:
“An alternate view of Marionism...”
Who’s Marion?
Only someone who knows the heart of such a one will be able to tell the difference.
Of course, one could be both...
Oh, brother...I see that the author relied on Hislop. When will people figure out that Hislop simply made things up out of thin air? If Ralph Woodrow could be informed of that fact by a high school teacher I don’t see how these other people can’t figure it out.
Although valid in his critique of Mariology, why did you choose someone with less than orthodox views on something even more important, like the Trinity?
The author and the “church” he writes for are anit-trinitarian, and officially modalist—a very serious error, amounting even to heresy. Such is more serious even than the mariology he criticizes. The author would not be permitted leadership or even communion in most evangelical churches—if his views on the nature of God were known.
From the text above:
“This is the same mechanism by which Christmas, Easter, Sunday-worship, and the pagan trinity-god were brought into the Roman church—and which most of mainstream Christianity has accepted without question.”
As you can see he also denies the validity of Sunday worship and the celebration of Christmas—though these are small points compared to the Trinity.
If we’re going to discuss orthodox belief, lets find an orthodox author.
Though he’s right about Mary, had I known the author and his organization were actually heretical, I wouldn’t have commented on this thread.
It goes to prove how we all ought to read a posting before commenting—and I’m the chief of sinners in that!
None of the first Christians worshipped Mary.
In fact, Mary was among the first group of Christians on the Day of Pentecost.