Posted on 04/04/2008 11:01:22 AM PDT by Gamecock
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."
841 "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; (after the Jews) these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
It may be that very judgement that they are aware of that is playing a hand in their conversions.
Praise God she heard it!
I went through a similar experience with my father-in-law.
I’m a Protestant ...
I’m not Catholic.
Christ alone can save us.
We can lead others to Christ, by our witness, testimony, and example.
And then Christ saves them.
Did we have any part in their salvation?
So much similarity yet parties on both sides criticize the other when we have so much to do. Why does my resistance to following Catholic dogma and traditions make Catholics feel I am a heretic just as it is wrong of Protestants to criticize Catholics for their choice in executing their faith when we both believe in the one true Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
That will come to a surprise to these folks.
To hear or read of this Church being celebrated as "universal" or "conservative" when my experience is that it is neither is quite infuriating to me
Yes, and your painting of all Catholicism SOLELY based on your experience is infuriating to me. You got burned, and now you have to exact your revenge until you die. THAT IS NO WAY TO LIVE A LIFE!
Actually, you’ve managed to condense your thoughts very, very clearly. You have obviously thought long and hard.
You’ll forgive me if I do not answer immediatley. There is too much fodder for thought in your post to just give a facile answer which is what we are wont to do on a BBS.
I may or may not answer. I wanted understand your position. Sometimes, not even an answer is wanted or welcomed.
That's true, but God's word must be given a voice. I should have worded it slightly differently, but you got the point.
I know where you are coming from and as I’ve said before, I agree with your position on inerrancy and I wish people would listen to it. You probably wouldn’t like my views on Genesis 1 at all LOL, but I’ve been down the slippery slope of Biblical higher criticism long enough to know it’s the text I have to trust over my own interpretation thereof. The text says what it says. Now maybe we didn’t interpret something right, but the error lies in our heads, not in the text as written.
You may be surprised...I think people are coming around on the inerrancy score. There’s perhaps more intellectuals in the Catholic world willing to subscribe to it now than, say, 20-30 years ago. I think people will come around.
Perhaps. But it certainly does not redound to the Church's credit that it has not only downplayed inerrancy for over a hundred years, but even chosen to make limited inerrancy one of its defining characteristics (as opposed to Fundamentalist Protestantism).
It sounds like your cousin is one heck of a good Christian.
Yes, the Words he brings are Spirit and life. But you cannot, you *cannot* my friend, interpret this passage as negating what was said earlier. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." Either you accept BOTH statements as literally true, or you are playing fast and loose with the Bible. You seem to want this passage above to cancel out the earlier one.
You don't believe Christ is in the habit of contradicting Himself do you?
The Catholic Church may have loved the Old high church South, but it has no use for the Bible Belt.
Yes, and your painting of all Catholicism SOLELY based on your experience is infuriating to me. You got burned, and now you have to exact your revenge until you die. THAT IS NO WAY TO LIVE A LIFE!
Then don't read my posts.
You know what, ZC? No it does not. You'll get no argument from me.
Thank you for listening to me.
I know you are Catholic, AB, as I also am.
I was just tweaking a little, and Always Right has come back to let me know that I should have gotten his point.
I am certainly in agreement that we need to lead others by our example, testimony and witness. Forgive me, AB, for reversing your order. I do think that example comes first. After that, the testimony and witness come across as not just words but deeds as well.
I only wish that Catholics would be more committed to making their faith known. It was the example, testimony and witness of a Catholic who was the instrument God used to bring me into the Church.
Well, no, before I became a Catholic I did not pay much attention to people who were not Catholics who made jeering, sneering, condescending remarks about the Catholic church. Heck, I didn’t even become a Habs fan because of the sneering of Leafs fans, although afterward that made it sweeter, especially when the Habs won Stanley Cups and the Leafs....well....
There was only one thing I considered when I forsook the Anglican church and its decision to cling to the old rugged [sex organ] and let the Cross go hang. And that was: “Is the Catholic faith, in its entirety, something I would be willing to die for? Do I believe it so strongly that if a Muslim with a sword or a smirking brat with a handgun said “Renounce your faith or die” to me, I’d die?
If a religion is worth dying for, it is worth living for. If you cannot live within it, you will not die for it.
And if your mind can be changed by carping, sneering and condescension from outside the gate, you are looking for popularity, not Christianity. I’d suggest you give up church altogether and go watch American Idol.
Sorry I think I missed something...were you taking issue with me or someone else?
2) Yes, a relatively few of us do not believe in one God, in whom are three distinct Persons (Father and Son and Holy Spirit) all of whom are equally God. And yet there are myriad other issues, of how we are saved, justified, sanctified, and what those terms mean, and what Grace is, and how it gets from God to us, etc. ad nauseaum. Christians have been wrestling with these issues, sometimes politely and sometimes at sword point, for almost two millenia.
That's not going to stop.
Still, we live in a secularized culture which denies not only all the things we disagree with each other about, but all the things we agree on as well.
I think we would be wise, on occasion, to step back and look at our vast areas of agreement ... and work to support each other.
The world out there, from secularists to communists to islamists, would dearly love to destroy us all.
I would like to know if the apostles ( Paul mainly ) every time he got together with a group of new or recent believers if communion was performed? I tend to doubt it. These early churches were all about learning about Christ and His promised return. I do think the act of communion was passed down and should be performed but not on a daily basis and surely not be denied to a person because they are not in your church.
Well said.
“If a religion is worth dying for”
No, but Christ is. It is not religion nor a church that saves you but a relationship with Jesus, as described in the Bible, no matter which church, if any, you attend.
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