Justification: Through Faith alone?

3-14-08 | me

[ChurtleDawg]

I have seen many discussions on the theology of Justification and Salvation. Many Protestants, in particular, tend to believe that the soul can be saved through Faith alone, Sola fide, and doing good works plays no part is Salvation. This is reinforced in particular by the books of the New Testament like Romans and Galatians.

Other denominations, such as those in the Catholic, Orthodox, and Restorationist Churches think that one must both be Faithful and do good works. This is supported in particular by the Epistle of James.

here is a list of quotes supporting and opposing the Sola fide doctrine (from wikipedia):

Supporting:

Psalms 84:12: "O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you." Isaiah 64:6: "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. And all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." 2 Chronicles 20:20: "Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld..." Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Luke 5:20:"When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." " Luke 18:10-14:"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God." Luke 23:40-43: "But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." " John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 6:28-29: "Therefore they said to Him, 'What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.'" John 5:24: "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 6:40: "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:47: "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." Acts 10:43: "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'" Acts 26:18: "...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me..." Romans 1:17-18: "Therefore the just shall live by faith. The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness." Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." Romans 4:5: "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." Romans 5:1: "...having been justified by faith..." Romans 10:9: "That if you shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." Romans 11:6: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Romans 14:23: "...and everything that does not come from faith is sin." Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Philippians 3:9: "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." Galatians 2:16: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:21: "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 3:1-3; 9-14; 21-25: "O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you; did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? ... So then they who are of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Because as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: because it is written, 'Cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to be done'. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith'. And the law is not of faith: but, 'The man that does them shall live in them'. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. So that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, certainly righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up from the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith..." Galatians 5:4,5: "Christ has become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Titus 3:5: "...he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit..."

Opposing:

Matthew 5:48 (part of the Expounding of the Law within the Sermon on the Mount): "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (compare Imitatio dei) Matthew 7:21 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:24-27 (part of the Sermon on the Mount): "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." Matthew 12:36-37: "I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done." Matthew 19:17: ""Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."" Matthew 24:10-20 (part of the Olivet discourse): "Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 25:31-46 (part of The Sheep and the Goats): "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 28:19-20a (part of the Great Commission): "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Luke 8:21: " But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it." Luke 10:25-28: "On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."" John 5:29: "And will come out--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." Romans 2:6,7; 13: "For he will repay according to each one's deeds. To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; for it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified." Romans 2:16: "on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." Galatians 6:7b-9: "A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." 1 Corinthians 10:12: "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 13:2-3: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:13: "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love." 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil." James 1:22: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." James 2 (excerpts): "... What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ... Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, James 2:24: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Phillipians 2:12-13: "... work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work." 1 Peter 1:17: "Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one's works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning." 1 John 2:3-7: "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard." Revelation 14:12-13: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labours, for their deeds follow them.’ Revelation 20:13: "All the dead were judged according to their deeds." Revelation 22:12: "Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds

[Harrymehome]

Now you seem to be trying to have it both ways.

You show me where I said repentance didn’t exist and I’ll eat my words. You’re trying to put words into my mouth?

bless you in your search for TRUTH

[Harrymehome]

You say in ref to Rom 3:20 and James 2:10
“No contradiction here at all! Paul was talking about the 10 Commandments.”

It’s funny. When I put you on the spot, you don’t answer my questions. We can’t continue with the rest of your post until we settle this critical issue. Now before we can proceed and I answer any of your questions let’s settle this issue. Now, I’ll ask you again. These were my exact words from Post 131.
“Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Here we find the key to understanding what law he is referring to. He is speaking of circumcision by faith. Now why does he mention circumcision? What does that have to do with the 10 commandments? What does circumcision have to do with justification? When you answer those questions, then we can continue.”

The big 10 don’t mention anything about circumcision. Now please answer the questions and not in riddles like you’ve done in the past when I backed you into a corner. In other words, speak simple, logical terms.

Blessings in your desperate search for TRUTH

[Harrymehome]

You say in ref to Rom 3:20 and James 2:10
“No contradiction here at all! Paul was talking about the 10 Commandments.”

It’s funny. When I put you on the spot, you don’t answer my questions. We can’t continue with the rest of your post until we settle this critical issue. Now before we can proceed and I answer any of your questions let’s settle this issue. Now, I’ll ask you again. These were my exact words from Post 131.
“Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Here we find the key to understanding what law he is referring to. He is speaking of circumcision by faith. Now why does he mention circumcision? What does that have to do with the 10 commandments? What does circumcision have to do with justification? When you answer those questions, then we can continue.”

The big 10 don’t mention anything about circumcision. Now please answer the questions and not in riddles like you’ve done in the past when I backed you into a corner. In other words, speak simple, logical terms.

Blessings in your desperate search for TRUTH

[xone]

You’re trying to put words into my mouth?

Those quotes are your own. As you posted them. I am not defending you on them. Are they your words or not? If you made a mistake, that's fine but you got to own up to it, or explain yourself.

You show me where I said repentance didn’t exist and I’ll eat my words.

I never said that either.

[xone]

From post #136

This no KEY. There is no mystery here. Paul is referring to Jews and Gentiles. Circumcision vs. non-circumsized. Circumcision was the outward sign of the promise given to Abraham. Circumcision by faith refers to the inward change to the heart of the believer by which the world would know who had the promise of salvation paid for by Christ. No Law here again. Paul doesn't ever talk about 10 commandment justification because it doesn't exist.

How doesn't this answer your question?

What does circumcision have to do with justification?

Nothing, just like the Law has nothing to do with justification just as Paul writes Rom 3:20; 28.

[Harrymehome]

You say:
How about yourself? Would save some time.

Another one of your off the wall comments “would save some time” that seems to be just pulled out of a hat.

Anyway, I’m a 61 year old non-denominational, non-tithe paying, non participator in Pagan holidays, pure Biblical true commandment keeping (try to keep) Christian.

Bless you in your search for TRUTH

[xone]

Anyway, I’m a 61 year old non-denominational, non-tithe paying, non participator in Pagan holidays, pure Biblical true commandment keeping (try to keep) Christian.

Excellent. Especially the (try to keep), implies the need for a Savior.

Another one of your off the wall comments “would save some time” that seems to be just pulled out of a hat.

Not at all, it helps me figure out your earlier posts regarding the efficacy of the Law for salvation.

[Harrymehome]

You said in response to my saying “the big 10 are perpetual and to be always remembered”,
So Harry, which is it?

I don’t know what is the problem? We’re to remember to always try to keep his commandments because they’re perpetual. Seems like plain and simple English to me. What is your problem? If one forgets or intentionally fails, and “sincerely” repents, the Father, not Yeshua as you say, forgives the transgression. “Go and sin no more” are Yeshua’s words.

Bless you as you search for TRUTH.

[Harrymehome]

You say:

How doesn’t this answer your question?

You answer totally and completely wrong. You, like all the millions of false prophets, miss the whole point of Paul’s teachings and why he talks about the circumcision. Paul was sent to the gentiles specifically to teach them that salvation into the promised land no longer required the physical sign of the circumcision, as the old Testament taught, to be an heir or adopted son. The Jewish Pharasees hated Paul, Yeshua or anyone who preached the salvation through non physical circumcision because they wanted the promises of the land covenant all to themselves. They don’t want to share the inheritance with the dogs. The parable about Lazarus (gentile) and the rich man (Pharisee) demonstrates this same point. So many, like you, just don’t understand the Bible. You preach things that you don’t understand.

You say:

the Law has nothing to do with justification just as Paul writes Rom 3:20; 28.

Again you box yourself into a corner which is nothing new. Are you contradicting James, speaking of the big 10 ?

Jam 2:12 ….they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

It has become very obvious that you are very confused. I guess you think that Paul speaks about circumcision just to hear himself talk or maybe you think he’s perverted or something. Why doesn’t he talk about the heart, or something else concerning the physical anatomy? You obviously are blind to the relationship of circumcision and justification as taught by Paul, which is about most of the New Testament. You need to read and understand the OLD before you try to understand the NEW.

Blessings as you search for TRUTH.

[xone]

not Yeshua as you say, forgives the transgression

Jesus doesn't forgive sins? C'mon.

Acts 2:37-39 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

Acts 10:42-44 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

[xone]

the Law has nothing to do with justification just as Paul writes Rom 3:20; 28.

Did you bother to read it?

It has become very obvious that you are very confused.

And is becoming obvious that you will rely on the Law for your justification. You doubt the sufficiency of God's grace. All I can say is good luck. Have a good evening.

[Harrymehome]

You say:
The Gentiles unless they lived next to Jews would have no knowledge or concern about Jewish customs/law/ordinances. Paul taught Gospel thusly:

You’re totally and completely dead wrong again. The Gentiles in Galatians,etc were made up of the House of Israel dispersed over 800 years before by the Assyrians. You demonstrate very little knowledge of Biblical history. You need to read the Old Testament 1Kings and 2 Kings. Paul even refers to the Corinthians as “brethren” and refers to “our Fathers” back in the time of Moses and the Exodus. The Corinthians were part of the descendants of the 10 tribes that had been dispersed. Paul was talking to his cousins from the 10 lost tribes. Read your whole Bible, not only the verses that suit your agenda.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that “all our fathers” were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

You say:
You treat the Bible as if it were a book of puzzles that need solving. …. There is no justification by the Law. ..

The fact is you can’t figure out the puzzle. Can you spell Circumcision? That is part of the puzzle. And yes, James says we are “justified by the Law of Liberty”. James 2 :12. Let me council you, that I have shown you this verse multiple times on this forum and you insist on ignoring it. You’re treading on the lines of disobeyance to the teaching of the Scriptures and even ignoring it. Beware, the judgement day is near and we’ll all have to account for our actions.

You say:
Land covenant, have it. There is only the heavenly kingdom.

You say that and show nothing to verify what you say. To the contrary the Bible teaches the opposite point of view. Here are just a few of the million of Biblical instances of the future Kingdom being on this earth in the promised land of the covenant. Please don’t come back with statements about going to some fantasy heavenly place 20 light years away. Heaven doesn’t necessarily mean that, as I will show after these verses.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and “bring you into the land of Israel”.

Eze 37:22 And I will make them “one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Eze 37:25 And “they shall dwell in the land” that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for eve

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and “we shall reign on the
earth”.

Heaven, many times, means on earth. That’s why you need to read all in order to understand. A few examples of literal heaven on earth

Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Neh 1:9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.

You say:
“The curse of the Law is death!”

Did you get that out of the King James version or from the New Xone Version? Show me the verse that says that. Now don’t let me have to remind you to show me the verse. Do you have Alzheimers sometimes?

I still notice how you stay away from the following verse like the plague.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,

Which of the big 10 mentions a curse? You say faith only saves and not keeping the big 10. So with that in mind, show me which of the 10 commandments mentions a curse? Again, don’t forget to answer my question. Not in riddles please.

You say:
Paul talks about the Ten Commandments when talking about salvation and justification.

Dead wrong!! He would be contradicting James. I’ve already made this very Biblically clear. James 2:24 talking about the big 10 says

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Paul in Galatians 2:16 can not possibly be talking about the big 10 when he says

Gal 2:16 ..we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:...

This again is about the 5th time I have to show these biblical passages. Get with the program. You’re still a bit young to be having Alzheimers. Paul, one more time, is talking about the law of ordinances, circumcision, curses, -— are you getting it yet, Ozone, I mean Xone. I hope I don’t have to go buy a tape recording and mail it to you.

You say:
The Jews have had their land returned.

Again you display your ignorance of Scripture. The land covenant didn’t apply only to the Jews. It applied to all 12 tribes. Furthermore, the land of the covenant is not only the current geographical land of Israel but goes form the Nile to the Euphrates. Gen 15:18.

You say:
There isn’t a millenial reign on this Earth.

You contradict the Bible again. Rev 5:10

You say:
Gal 5: 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Gal 6: 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Eph 2: 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace Col 2: 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross Isaiah57: 12 I will expose your righteousness and your works, and they will not benefit you

So where in there does he talk about the 10 commandments? Once again you fail to show that. Paul is not, I repeat, is not, I repeat, is not talking about the big 10. The Big 10 does not, I repeat Alzheimer, doesn’t mention curses or circumcision. When will you get it? I know you don’t like the medicine, but I know you handle it.

You say:
“Your works apart from Faith mean nothing”.

Does that verse come from the Xone Version again? Show me the exact verse that says that. Don’t forget, Alzheimer. I want to see the exact verse.

You say:
Like I said good luck with your obedience. I’m sure it has reached the perfection required for justification through the Law.

I hope so too according to:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are “they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus”.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and “their works do follow them”.

Don’t come back and say that Faith is a work. No where does the Bible teach that as, if I remember correctly, you said in another response. You’ve said so many squirley things. Works are associated only with the different laws relating to curses, circumcision, ordinances , or the Big 10.

You say:
Your comment is a perfect example of this:
1Cor1: 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

What part of my comment are you referring to? I guess you believe that you don’t have freedom of choice. You’re a strange creature, Alzheimer. I’m not Jew. So what if I was? Yeshua was Jewish.

Blessings in your search for TRUTH

[Harrymehome]

You post:
“everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

It says through his name. He will judge. Interesting. Why is it then when we pray, we are supposed to pray to the Father. We are are then supposed to end the prayer in the name of Yeshua? I am not sure that is Biblical? I am glad you bring that to my attention. Good point.

Bless you in your search for TRUTH

[kindred]

[The scriptures teach that faith and works are both required. ]

The scriptures teach that faith in the finished work of God’s only begotten son Jesus Christ, who was crucified for OUR sins and rose again the third day, is required for salvation.
The good works of the saved Christian is acceptable to God after salvation is given to the believer of God’s Word and Work by Christ Jesus. This follows salvation and can not precede it as good works can not save those who do not believe God, Christ and His Word. Even if they beleive their church baptism or membership or good works or baptism or holiness movements or sabbath day worship or whatever they believe, the scriptures teach they must believe unto salvation first before the good they do will count. Good works of sinners who believe not are fruitless as the Holy Spirit does not indwell them that seek forgivness without the faith first. Paul states it, James states it, God told them, some beleive, some do not.

[xone]

I suppose that I should have started this dialogue with whether you use the Apostle’s or Nicene creed in your worship. Do you? If not worshipping in a church environment do they reflect your view?

[DannyTN]

I’ll grant you that repentance and accepting Jesus can be considered acts of obedience. But I don’t think that’s what our discussion has been about.

If you are now claiming that these minimum “works”, if you call them that, are all that’s necessary for salvation, then we are on the same page.

But if you are claiming that your salvation depends on ongoing works, then you are wrong.

Jesus said the one who loves him would be obedient. He also so said that the one that is forgiven much will love much. And he said that WHOSOEVER believes in him would be forgiven. Notice the order. Faith -> Forgiveness -> Love ->Obedience. It’s not the other way around. And faith doesn’t yield instantaneous obedience or good works.

[jkl1122]

The faith that saves is not simple belief, but rather it is an obedient faith. In order to be saved, one must not only believe and repent, but they also must confess that Christ is the Son of God and be baptized for the remission of their sins.

[DannyTN]

"The faith that saves is not simple belief, but rather it is an obedient faith. In order to be saved, one must not only believe and repent, but they also must confess that Christ is the Son of God and be baptized for the remission of their sins."

If by "simple belief" you mean mental ascent like the demons have who believe Jesus is the Son of God but don't place their trust in him for remission of sins, then yes, it's not that.

But if "simple belief" means asking God for salvation and trusting that God will keep His promises then that's a faith that will save. That faith will save whether or not a person is baptised. But being baptised is the first thing that God commanded us to do, so you would expect that unless there is a medical reason, that any truly repentant person would be baptised.

And if by "Obedient faith" you mean that we need to fear that our salvation will be lost if we don't obey perfectly after accepting Jesus, then no. We need to fear chastisement and the consequences of sin, but not the loss of our eternal salvation that is secure.

[xone]

not Yeshua as you say, forgives the transgression

Jesus forgiving sins:

Matt 9:

2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

Luke 5:

20When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

Luke 7:

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

[xone]

You say faith only saves and not keeping the big 10

Show me where you are justified by the Law. See #4 below.

“Your works apart from Faith mean nothing”.

Romans 4 Abraham Justified by Faith

1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Romans 4:

5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.

Romans 11:

5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.[a] 7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

Ephesians 2:

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Finally:

Romans 9:

31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."